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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5250
Location: southeastern USA
I'd bet the coach issue had already been dealt with before the 611 program was started.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Indeed it has been dealt with.... A survey was conducted and determined that 10 out of 10 railfans will ride regardless of the consist, 10 out of 10 photogs whom do not contribute to such endeavors financially will still shoot photos and complain about more than just the consist and MOST IMPORTANTLY 10 out of 10 members of the general public don't know or care what an N&W trainset looks like.

;-)


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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
Dave wrote:
I'd bet the coach issue had already been dealt with before the 611 program was started.

dave
Yep.... "We can use the NS cars, they're free"

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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:54 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:49 am
Posts: 634
Okay, let's get down to brass tacks....

We need a pool of coaches, at least thirty of them. My preference would be heavyweights. I can't think of anyone who has an Amtrak-certified heavyweight coach, but here is the question...are the cars Class Ones use for their business purposes all Amtrak certified? If not, and the standards are still high quality ( I reckon they would be on a par with Amtrak), would their standards suffice? Has anyone thought of approaching the Class Ones with the idea of having them repair and own the fleet, while volunteer entities assist in the maintenance of them? I'm just thinking out loud here...


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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Txhighballer wrote:
Okay, let's get down to brass tacks....

We need a pool of coaches, at least thirty of them. My preference would be heavyweights. I can't think of anyone who has an Amtrak-certified heavyweight coach, but here is the question...are the cars Class Ones use for their business purposes all Amtrak certified? If not, and the standards are still high quality ( I reckon they would be on a par with Amtrak), would their standards suffice? Has anyone thought of approaching the Class Ones with the idea of having them repair and own the fleet, while volunteer entities assist in the maintenance of them? I'm just thinking out loud here...


Regarding only NS, yes, a number of their cars are Amtrak certified:

#800221 business car #4 "Michigan" (ex-CR #1, exx-SOU #3, exxx-#10, nee-PULL)
#800356 business car #5 "Maryland" (ex-CR #4, nee-SOU #4)
#800411 track geometry car #21 "Research" (ex-CR #21, exx-AT&SF #55, nee-#32)
#800463 business car #7 "Pennsylvania" (ex-CR #5, exx-#100, exxx-NS #100, nee-N&W #100)
#800744 executive sleeper #2 "Carolina" (ex-SOU #1A, nee-#17)
#800769 sleeper #9 "Alabama" (ex-#15, exx-SOU #15, nee-PULL)
#800770 business car #1 "Virginia" (ex-SOU #1, nee-#16)
#800771 business car #3 "Claytor Lake" (ex-N&W #500, exx-WAB #100, nee-#10)
#800772 sleeper #12 "Indiana" (ex-N&W #450, nee-#491)
#800773 diner lounge #19 "Kentucky" (nee-N&W #494)
#800774 business car #20 "Ohio" (ex-SOU #7, exx-#20, nee-PULL)
#800775 club diner #21 "West Virginia" (ex-SOU #8, exx-#9, exxx-#12, nee-#15)
#800776 lounge-theater car #23 "Buena Vista" (nee-SOU #19)
#800777 dome lounge #24 "Delaware" (ex-CR #55, exx-VRRC #552, exxx-WRSX #552, exxxx-AUT #514, nee-AT&SF #552)
#800778 coach #26 "New York" (ex-CR #27, exx-AMTK #5667, exxx-PC #2949, nee-NYC)
#800779 exhibition-baggage car #27 (ex-SOU #24, nee-PULL)
#800780 coach #28 (nee-N&W #501)
#800781 coach #29 (nee-N&W #533)
#800782 sleeper #11 "Illinois" (ex-SOU #16, exx-#6, exxx-#11, nee-PULL)
#800783 diner #18 "General William B. Mahone" (nee-N&W #493)
#800784 sleeper-recreation car #13 "Georgia" (ex-SOU #18, nee-PULL)
#800785 track geometry car #32 "Research" (ex-SOU #25, exx-PC #1, exxx-#2, exxxx-NYC #10, nee-MC #1)

(My list is incomplete, I keep finding #800xxx-series numbers as I go)

Also, both BNSF and UP have a number of cars in their respective fleets that are Amtrak certified.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:16 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
There are many privately owned heavyweights that are Amtrak-certified--see, for example the DC Chapter's "Dover Harbor" in the December issue of Trains.

The problem is that most of said cars are high-end first-class and "Business" cars, which typically start at $350+ on a one-day steam trip. No place for dad, mom, and the 2.2 kids, at least not in any realistic, anything-short-of-inherited-wealth environment.

NS was wise enough to recently pounce on a few ex-C&O/PAT coaches when the opportunity arose; these would be good for either steam excursions or company business (more local officials on the "Operation Lifesaver" trip without looking like you're a bunch of "robber barons").


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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
If you follow trains' facebook page, apparently they agree. They are doing a feature article on the steam renaissance. Same mentality as here: all about the mainline excursion, damn the everyday tourist railway engine.

Honestly. I,m starting to think everyone in this greater conversation owns a $3000 camera.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:07 am
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robertmacdowell wrote:
Same mentality as here: all about the mainline excursion, damn the everyday tourist railway engine.

Yes. And it is a child's mentality.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Really, you guys are surprised that the focus is on the excursion engines?
Just like it's on the locomotives and not the cars, it's always the high profile anythings that get the press, and therefore, the funding.
In other preservation fields, people would more likely donate to a fund to preserve a Battleship than the historic dock it's moored to. A restoration of a Frank Loyd Wright home will get better support than a 1930s gas station (never mind that each has equal historical merit, given the right conditions).

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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
It should be pointed out that Trains, as well as Railfan & Railroad, etc. aren't stupid. They're highlighting and hyping what SELLS. Eyeballs, magazines, page views.

Just like TV, the NFL, Hollywood, and the like, the emphasis is on generating excitement and buzz and enthusiasm. It's a distorted view of the market, to be sure, but "that's life," as they say. The covers aren't the "artsy" covers of the Morgan era; they're screaming billboards, just like every other popular magazine on the newsstand.

I've had preservation-related story ideas rejected by Trains because they weren't "positive" or exciting enough.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
It's "goldener" than you can possibly believe.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
robertmacdowell wrote:
If you follow trains' facebook page, apparently they agree. They are doing a feature article on the steam renaissance. Same mentality as here: all about the mainline excursion, damn the everyday tourist railway engine.

Honestly. I,m starting to think everyone in this greater conversation owns a $3000 camera.



Don't hate me for my 5D. ;-)

Seriously though, guys with a lot of camera gear also tend to be the ones who fork out big bucks for photo charters... you can't base an operation on them but the additional revenue doesn't hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Golden Age of Steam Restoration?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5250
Location: southeastern USA
I think we've all come to trust and expect the everyday tourist and museum steam engines to do what we expect them to do; either run or be in the shops being made to run again at some point in the future. So, the glamor goes to the unusual......and so does the attention and the media. If you want to be assured of riding behind real steam, go to Disney theme parks. Many museum and tourist lines are just holding on, making running repairs as needed and managing their operations reactively only.

dave

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