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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2435
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
What we are seeing here is cleverly-crafted spin from CSR. They claim victory of sorts, but the facts in the above-linked Court Memorandum and Decision are abundantly clear.

1. CSR "purchased" the locomotive from the Great Overland Station.
2. Great Overland Station did not own the locomotive.
3. The City of Topeka owns the locomotive.
4. The Children group never had any real claim.

While I agree with the CSR press release that the court's decision gives the muddled mess some "clarity" it doesn't mean CSR won. CSR signed a purchase agreement to buy something from someone who had no ownership interest. I hope no money changed hands.

Also, CSR stating that they want to keep the locomotive in Topeka is also very telling. I assume CSR's main planned source of income for the project (government grants for alternative fuels research) has dried up, and thus the need to convert 3463 is no longer needed. In fact, if you read further on the CSR page, they are doing biofuel tests, but they are also asking for people like us to donate money to make those tests happen. It's a far cry from the big dreams and plans heralded four years ago.

David Wilkins
Brooklyn Bridge-For-Sale, Utah

_________________
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David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 387
Location: Winters, TX
It sounds like the CSR is going to pursue the acquisition of the locomotive so I assume that they have future plans for it. Otherwise they could just walk away from it right now since they never entered into an agreement to buy the 3463 from the city. I suspect that plans for it are long term as they have found other steam locomotives to test their fuel with apparently promising results.

Keeping it in Topeka can be viewed in a number of ways. They may store it there until the time comes when they have the resources to move it to Minnesota for rebuilding. Or they may find it more economical to rebuild it in Topeka. It's even possible, though not likely, that they just want to save face given all the hoopla they have on their website about the 3463 project. Most of us would never have heard of the CSR or their fuel if it weren't for the 3463. Whatever their plans for the locomotive, they've proven to be the best caretaker of it in many many years.


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:52 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1209
Charlie wrote:
It sounds like the CSR is going to pursue the acquisition of the locomotive so I assume that they have future plans for it. Otherwise they could just walk away from it right now since they never entered into an agreement to buy the 3463 from the city. I suspect that plans for it are long term as they have found other steam locomotives to test their fuel with apparently promising results. Whatever their plans for the locomotive, they've proven to be the best caretaker of it in many many years.


Their press release is ambiguous about their plans for the locomotive, and why they would even have any plans for a locomotive that they do not own. Their statement makes it impossible to determine whether they intend to purchase the locomotive from the City; or whether they are just wishing it well and letting go of the original dream.

Also, completely missing from any of the news is the response from the City upon learning that they own a locomotive that they had thought they got rid of many years ago. If they did not want to display and maintain it then, I doubt they want to do that now.

I see nothing to indicate that CSR has proven to be the best caretaker of the locomotive, as you say. They have given it a cheap coat of cosmetic paint, and undertaken a considerable amount of disassembly. The greatest constructive effort put forth so far to preserve and maintain the locomotive was done by volunteers before Great Overland Station lost interest and ordered the work to cease.


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 Post subject: Re: ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:28 am 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1209
A couple years ago, when the news of the CSR acquisition of #3463 first came out, I attempted to verify the ownership of the locomotive. I made written inquiries to the City of Topeka, Shawnee County, and Great Overland Station. GOS claimed to have owned the locomotive prior to transferring title to CSR in Minneapolis; however, GOS could not produce any documentation to verify that they had owned the locomotive.

Shawnee County told me that they had never owned the locomotive. Their only involvement was that the locomotive was on their property.

The City of Topeka told me that they did not own the locomotive and they could not produce any documentation showing that they had ever owned it. However, they did say or suggest that they had once owned it as a gift from AT&SF. There was also a general narrative circulating that said that the City had transferred ownership to GOS (or their predecessor of a different name).

These factors indicate the following:

1) Several years ago, the City decided to find a new home for both the locomotive and the responsibility to care it.
2) Up until this court decision, the City believed that they had found a new home for the locomotive; and have not owned the locomotive for the several years since transferring the locomotive ownership to GOS.

So this court decision is a real game changer for the City of Topeka. After a long period of believing that they had gotten rid of their responsibility for the locomotive, it is back in their lap in worse condition than when they got rid of it.

So what happens next will be influenced by that background. It seems to me that the City will be more interested than ever in transferring the locomotive to another party. Because of the immense size and weight of the locomotive any practical transfer of ownership depends on the ability of the recipient provide their own facility for the locomotive, and to MOVE it to that facility. One way out of that problem would be for Shawnee County to allow the locomotive to be stored on their property where it presently stands. Then the new owner would only have to protect and insure the locomotive.

In my opinion, this approach would favor the “Children” group that wants to keep the engine in Topeka for public display.


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