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| Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35952 |
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| Author: | Mike Piersa [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
How much are these Westinghouse air pumps worth? They are available for sale, but the seller wants a rough market value before negotiating a specific price. http://piersa2001.smugmug.com/Other/WAB ... &k=cGq5KJx The pumps have been sitting for at least 30 years. The steam cylinders appear to be about 9 1/2 inches in diameter. If anyone is interested in purchasing them, feel free to PM me an offer and I can give it to the seller, but for the moment, a ballpark estimate of value is what is needed so the seller knows what they are dealing with and can make an informed decision. The pumps are located in a building that will be demolished this winter. |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
Checked this thread in Classifieds: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30496 Note that those compressors are a bit larger; the ones your acquaintance has may actually be an 8"-size (there appears to be an 8 on one of the cylinders, which would be a reference to internal bore), and although they might be restorable, they are not operational. I have to admit to being intrigued by the facility in the background. It looks like it was a machine shop of some kind. Are you at liberty to say more about it and what other goodies, like machine tools, might be in it? |
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
The difficulty is there's no practical means of knowing - without tearing down and measuring and inspecting - whether these are on their last oversize before condemnation or of they have a couple or so borings left in the cylinders before condemnation. A pump on its first factory bore can be rebored a few times to stock oversizes before it must be junked. Consequently, it is worth much more than one with no extra metal left in it. Sitting for 30 years - the location doesn't seem too controlled and dry, nor does it appear any maintenance has been done - is another red flag which could indicate rings seized in the bores which would be a complete overhaul is required.....couple this with a nonstock size...... I think he'd be well served to either post them on Ebay at ridiculous prices to see if anybody foams enough to bite, or ask for offers as is where is from the steam community. I could see the Maine 2 foot guys using a pump with an 8 inch bore. Dave |
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| Author: | Mike Piersa [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
Thank you both for the replies. I'm not sure if they want me to give away the location of the facility (its in Eastern PA), but there are also several small steam turbine driven water pumps and two Ingersoll-Rand steam powered air compressors. One is a straight line unit with twin flywheels, a 12 x 11 inch steam cylinder, and a 12 x 10 inch air cylinder. Probably weighs 5 or 6 tons. I can probably look that up sometime. The other is a monstrous Imperial Type 10 Cross Compound. The heavy pieces can be had for $350 a ton. The machine shop was already scrapped, but there is a big pipe threader not far from the compressors. It is covered in rust, but I can send pics if anyone is curious. |
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| Author: | whodom [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
Dave wrote: The difficulty is there's no practical means of knowing - without tearing down and measuring and inspecting - whether these are on their last oversize before condemnation or of they have a couple or so borings left in the cylinders before condemnation. A pump on its first factory bore can be rebored a few times to stock oversizes before it must be junked. Consequently, it is worth much more than one with no extra metal left in it. Dave, Can't they be "sleeved" like an auto engine block? |
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
I don't know if it is practically possible, theoretically maybe. Westinghouse did not use or sanction that method. I learned what I know about official standards and practices for WABCO compressor rebuilds from Bernie Watts, who certainly knows much more than I do about them, but he follows the WABCO recommendations since he guarantees his workmanship. Since I don't want the brakes on my train dependent on any potentially unreliable repair technique, I'd be reluctant to try it unless it was on something that didn't matter just for research purposes. I don't metal spray axles or wheel contours either. dave |
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| Author: | Jersey steam [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
I would consider them as pure junk, especially the one on the right. The last time I saw them was about 20 years ago when I was rummaging through the powerhouse and the property. Only an expert could possibly get them into operating condition with a lot of new parts. I was wondering if they were still on site. Bernie |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
They are worth saving, if nothing else for parts. In their present condition they are probably not worth much more than scrap value. |
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| Author: | Loco112 [ Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
There were industrial stationary pumps and there were railroad pumps and they were not the same. These actually look like locomotive design pumps, but looks can be decieving. Call Midwest (Mt. Pleasant Iowa) and send photos and measurements to offer them as cores for the usable parts, they used to buy cores. |
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| Author: | Bad Order [ Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
For a time I worked in the former MK&T railroads' diesel shop here in town. The building is now owned by a railroad contractor. I had the run of the place....maintenance man. Upstairs on the mezzanine in what was formerly a machine shop I ran across one of these steam powered air compressors. Mounted up on some of the steel work along with a riveted air receiver to provide air for whatever function they performed down in that end of the shop. Everything had been removed from the shop are but this thing. Anyhow, the last time the UP844 came to town on tour I, as a UP employee, climbed up in the cab and was talking to the enginemen about things in general and I mentioned that there happened to be one of those compressors still in place over there in the shop building... in disuse. They all piped up and said "Don't let Steve (Lee) find out about that or he'll have us over there taking it down. We finished talking and I climbed back down and went back to work. About 30 minutes later I saw 3 guys climb into the chase truck and it took off and they made a dust trail as they sped over to the shop building... found out later from fellows who work at the shop that they indeed did get a visit from the steam crew who requested and were allowed to take down that pump.... |
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| Author: | EDM [ Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
Its been a good 30 years since I've been down in the engineroom of the cruiser Olympia in Philadelphia, but I remember a pair of single stage compressors on one of the bulkheads. So they were used on ships as well as for stationary purposes. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
The Chestnut Hill pumping plant in Boston has a single lung compressor with a Crown Railway build plate. I think the date was 197x. I noticed it while touring about ten years ago. It is down in the pit of the triple expansion pump. The ferry Badger has cross compound pumps in the boiler room. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
I think we can take it as given that air compressors either similar to or in some cases identical to steam locomotive pumps were used in other settings, wherever steam was handy and air was needed. Crown bought out WABCO's air pump business. Backshop bought it from Crown. Does anybody have any specific advice for the gentleman who has them to dispose of and good data to back his advice? dave |
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| Author: | Bobk [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Westinghouse Air Pumps |
These steam powered compressors were also used in the early oilfield and refinery industries. In the remore field they had boilers for steam so these pumps were the logical choice. A lot of refineries used them as well because boilers were common and refinery units may have been somewhat remote. Once again the steam powered air pump was used. The engine rooms on the battleship Texas has single cylinder airpumps on the bulkheads. |
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| Author: | Loco112 [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps |
Dave wrote: Does anybody have any specific advice for the gentleman who has them to dispose of and good data to back his advice?dave Yes. CALL MIDWEST, in the past they published thier core prices, or call Dave's freind Bernie and work out a deal with him. It is still to be determined if those are industrial or railroad pumps, they are not the same. The bores need to be measured in order to determine what they are, and that would also idenetify if there is iron left for taking the factory over bores. The shuttle valves need to be looked at, all the parts need to be looked at to determin thier condition and value, or the seller is going to have to take what he can get, or keep them. If the seller wants top dollar he is going to have to quantify what he has, or pay someone to quantify what he has, or take what he can get from whom ever is offering, or just keep them. |
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