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 Post subject: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation grant
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:48 pm
Posts: 14
I hadn't seen this posted here, but the voting ended New Year's Eve. One of the official Kalmbach releases is at the bottom of this post. The Tri-State Chapter NRHS's Bangor & Aroostook / Lackawanna F3 663 topped the list of "must see" locomotives in the first-ever popular vote held by Kalmbach's Locomotive Magazine. The winner also received a $1000 grant toward the upkeep of the winning locomotive. In reality, both F3s were initially nominated as a set, DL&W 664/B&A 46 owned by the Anthracite Railraods Historical Society, but along the way people were nominating the 664 and 663 separately, so the tally showed them separately. Tri-State and the 663 were already in fund-drive mode to raise money to replace or repair a worn-out air compressor, so it had momentum going into the contest.

It's still sinking in to we in the "F-Troop" that this honor came our way, and a lot of the reason is because of the help and support we've received from so many people in so many areas. It's been nearly 25 years since Tri-State and ARHS formally joined efforts to work together on the F3s, the ARHS having to overcome much bigger obstacles. When so much of all of our lives has been dedicated to spending time inside, outside and all around every knook and cranny of these time-machines, and on the phones and e-mail, we don't often see that the work and progress may mean something to so many others. When our two groups bought these engines in 1985 -- the 30th Anniversary is in 2015 -- there were still bunches of F-units running ocean to ocean, from those in the Eastern commuter zones, to the Erie Mining fleet, to the steel team on the Bessemer, to the collection with the snowplows on the Alaska Railroad, not to mention the then-growing number of tourist roads and short lines with F-units. Even our own groups weren't sure of the decision to buy them when so many others existed. Board members had to be convinced and work sites established (and paid for), and in the case of Tri-State most of the prime-movers behind the purchase of B&A 44 are gone. It's second- and third-generation Tri-State and ARHS-ers taking care of these first-generation locomotives. And we want these priceless covered wagons in as-built condition that are older than some operating main-line steam locomotives to outlast this generation, so all of our repairs are being done with that in mind. We don't want to leave land mines for the next geration of the F-Troop. Thanks again, all who voted and contributed.

I hope this contest becomes an annual event, as the publicity and exposure gained during the voting will be so important to all preservation projects. The biggest obstacle that must be overcome in any preservation effort is awareness, which equates to support. There were so many other great projects in the running, and I hope the preservationists on this list can contribute to them -- google 'em. I'll admit there were many interesting ones about which I was not aware, and I've contributed to some. The exposure to our project during the vote drive has more than doubled the amount of the prize, and I hope all of the other groups had a similar experience. Tri-State affiliate URHS of New Jersey did have a similar experience. It's looking to raise $2500 to move U34CH 4472 from Garfield to Boonton where it can be painted and mated with a string of coaches it hauled in service. It entered the contest in the last two days of voting, placed fourth, and nearly reached its fund raising goal as a result.

And thanks to all of the ARHS members and leaders for the continued work and efforts toward preserving this slice of history. I'm not sure there are two rail history groups who have worked toward a single goal longer.

The list of all who were nominated are below. Please, if you can, contribute to those of interest. As for the F3s and the result of the 2013 contest, we'll "put 'em in to Spencer on time."

Mike Del Vecchio
President, CMO and F3 project leader
Tri-State Chapter NRHS
www.tristaterail.org

______________________

From TRAINS Magazine's facebook page:

Thanks to all who participated in the nomination of Locomotive magazine’s “must see” preserved diesel. This campaign was initiated to promote awareness of the preservation movement and support the dedicated groups working to preserve and maintain historic locomotives. A total of 62 locomotives were nominated via email and Facebook, with the latter drawing nearly 45,000 viewings.

Nominations closed at midnight December 31, and the votes have been tallied. Delaware, Lackawanna & Western 663, the NRHS Tri-State Chapter’s F3A, gets the nod with a total of 402 nominations.

DL&W 663 is one of two former-Bangor & Aroostook F3As restored to operating condition and Delaware, Lackawanna & Western colors. No. 663 is the pride of the Tri-State NRHS, while the Anthracite Railroads Historical Society owns sister DL&W 664. The two locomotives are based at Steamtown in Scranton, Pa., and are scheduled to travel to the streamliners event in Spencer, N.C., this spring.

As announced in Locomotive 2013, Tri-State will receive a donation of $1000 toward the care of DL&W 663, and the 1948-vintage Electro-Motive F3A will be featured in the next issue of Locomotive. Look for additional coverage of preserved diesels and electrics (including some of the nominees listed here) in a new Preservation section of Locomotive. If you aren’t already involved, please consider supporting the groups dedicated to preserving our history.

The complete results are listed below.

1: Delaware, Lackawanna & Western 663 (F3A) 402 nominations
2: Milwaukee Road 5057 (U25B) 156 nominations
3: Missouri-Kansas-Texas 142 (EMD-repowered RS3) 153 nominations
4: Erie Lackawanna 3372 (U34CH) 42 nominations
5: Southern Pacific 9010 (Krauss-Maffei ML4000C ‘C’) 41 nominations
6: Louisville & Nashville 770 (E6A) 21 nominations
7: Reading 902 and 903 (FP7) 18 nominations
8: New York Central 2500 (U25B) 14 nominations
9 (tie): Chicago, Burlington & Quincy 9911 (E5A) 13 nominations
9 (tie): U.S. Army 7178 (GE 65 ton)
10: CP Rail 4744 (M640) 12 nominations


The rest of the fleet:
Atlantic Coast Line 100 (GP7)
Atlantic Coast Line 501 (E3A)
Amtrak 231 (F40PH)
Armco B71 (Baldwin-Westinghouse "Visibility Cab")
Armco B73 (Baldwin-Westinghouse "Visibility Cab")
Baltimore & Ohio 51 (EA)
British Railways D1015 “Western Champion” (Western Class diesel-hydraulic)
Chesapeake & Ohio 5828 (GP9)
Chesapeake & Ohio 7311 (SD18) currently VLIX 7318
Chicago & North Western 1271 (SW1) currently Amoco 555
Chicago & North Western 411 (F7A)
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western 664 (F3A)
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western 959 (GP9)
Detroit & Mackinac 469 (RS2)
Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic 101 (RS1)
ECRX 886 (NW2)
Erie Lackawanna 3639 (SDP45)
Georgia 1026 (GP7)
Great Northern 325 (SDP40)
Great Northern 400 (SD45)
Illinois Central 6071 (SD40X)
Lehigh Valley 112 (SW1)
Lehigh Valley 211 (RS3, EMD repowered)
Louisville & Nashville 405 (GP7)
Louisville & Nashville 1616 (U25B)
MBTA 1153 (FP10)
Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern 21 (DT-6-6-2000)
Maine Central 252 (GP38)
Monon 32 (BL2)
Nevada Northern 109 (RS3)
New Haven 529 (RS3)
New Haven 1402 (RS11)
“Nickel Plate 190” (“PA4”)
Norfolk & Western 1776 (SD45)
Norfolk Southern 1616 (AS416) original NS
Northern Pacific 7012A (F7A)
New York Central 4085 (E8A)
New York Central 9121 (H12-44)
Pennsylvania 5901 (E7A)
Reading 621 (GP7)
Reading 5513 (GP30)
Rock Island 630 (E6A)
Santa Fe 108 (FP45)
Saratoga & North Creek 52 (BL2)
SOO 700 (GP30)
Southern 2601 (GP30)
Southern 6902 (E8A)
Southern 8202 (SW7)
Wisconsin Central 715 (GP30)
Western Maryland 132 (VO1000)
Whitewater Valley 25 (750-hp Lima)
— with Michael McKaig and Martin Toth.


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:24 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 420
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
Wow, one that's in the collection now as well as one we saved from the scrapper and moved on to a better home made the list. Pretty Cool! Sure seems a bit "heavy" with the EMDs though.

BTW, where exactly is this Southern 6902 E-8A that made the list????

ETA


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 137
Location: At large
I'm a little confused by this list and the process that took place to nominate a particular locomotive. Many on the list are very deserving of the distinction and indeed DL&W 663 is worthy of the win, but, I see a lot of privately owned, stored or shortline locomotives on the list that don't really meet the criteria of "preserved".

I guess it really doesn't matter as the winner falls into all the correct categories. Congratulations Tri-State. Now lets get an ALCO up there next year.

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Matt Giardino
ALCO Historical & Technical Society


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:01 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 428
I am also confused, you would think with a "must see" list they would tell you "where to see".

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:35 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 323
Location: western Maryland
< . . . but, I see a lot of privately owned, stored or shortline locomotives on the list that don't really meet the criteria of "preserved". >

Well, since you brought the subject up, why don't you inform the rest of us just what the criteria is for a locomotive, or anything else for that matter, to be considered "preserved".

As a preservationist who has already spent over $575,000 for the complete restoration of three locomotives with four more in various stages of so-called preservation, I'd sure like to know if any of my stuff is officially preserved.

By the way, I have a few ALCOs. When they are done, does them being ALCOs qualify them as preserved, or do I have to become a 501(c)3 to measure up?

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:02 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 475
wm303 wrote:
< . . . but, I see a lot of privately owned, stored or shortline locomotives on the list that don't really meet the criteria of "preserved". >

Well, since you brought the subject up, why don't you inform the rest of us just what the criteria is for a locomotive, or anything else for that matter, to be considered "preserved".

As a preservationist who has already spent over $575,000 for the complete restoration of three locomotives with four more in various stages of so-called preservation, I'd sure like to know if any of my stuff is officially preserved.

By the way, I have a few ALCOs. When they are done, does them being ALCOs qualify them as preserved, or do I have to become a 501(c)3 to measure up?


I believe he defines "preserved" as publicly displayed for others to see.

I personally believe privately owned is the essence of preservation. People willing to put there own time and money into preserving pieces, my hat's off to you. Stored? Well, a lot of pieces are stored until they can be displayed. Nothing wrong with that. Shortlines, while they can and do preserve locomotives, I personally don't believe they qualify for a contest such as this, since they already make money to upkeep their pieces (for example, I don't think Strasburg would qualify for this).

That being said, I'm very happy 663 and Tri-State won this.

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Mark Z. Yerkes
Amateur Rail Historian


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:07 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 475
traingeek8223 wrote:
I'm a little confused by this list and the process that took place to nominate a particular locomotive. Many on the list are very deserving of the distinction and indeed DL&W 663 is worthy of the win, but, I see a lot of privately owned, stored or shortline locomotives on the list that don't really meet the criteria of "preserved".

I guess it really doesn't matter as the winner falls into all the correct categories. Congratulations Tri-State. Now lets get an ALCO up there next year.


Nominations took place on Facebook and via email. Likes and emails counted as votes.

Why exactly do privately owned or stored locomotives not meet the criteria of "preserved"? I'd think a single person trying to restore a locomotive on his own is more than deserving of a grant such as this.

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Mark Z. Yerkes
Amateur Rail Historian


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:41 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 323
Location: western Maryland
< I believe he defines "preserved" as publicly displayed for others to see.

Well now, there's a qualifier that got by me somehow. Surely you jest! Where on earth can you "hide" a locomotive so that it can't be seen, let alone a half dozen of them?

< I personally don't believe they qualify for a contest such as this, since they already make money to upkeep their pieces

It has nothing to do with money or contests. It has to do with the sanctimonious attitudes of those people, whom everything they have was given/donated to them, and the great majority of what they did with what they got was with money given/donated to them, sitting back and saying that an artifact isn't preserved because it wasn't one of them that did the preserving.

Give the money to those who need it and deserve it, but don't discount the efforts of for-profits like Delaware-Lackawanna, Morristown and Erie, and their peers who own and operate equipment that you can not see operating in any other venue anywhere, including museums.

Preservation is preservation, regardless of who does it, or even why they do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8354
Location: Baltimore, MD
wm303 wrote:
< I believe he defines "preserved" as publicly displayed for others to see.

Well now, there's a qualifier that got by me somehow. Surely you jest! Where on earth can you "hide" a locomotive so that it can't be seen, let alone a half dozen of them?


Wells, Michigan.

Hey, you asked.


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:48 pm
Posts: 14
In this contest, I wouldn't look into the word "preserved" too deeply. This was a free-for-all, a popular vote. Any person could nominate any diesel for any reason. It wouldn't have surprised me if one or two weren't modern, in service units on for-profit railroads. Every locomotive has a fan somewhere.

The editor's gene in me was thinking all along that this type of poling was worth every penny of the prize money to the editors, who are now aware of the preservation efforts and the leaders. Of course, so is every other rail magazine staffer. And it's all good for the preservation groups for the publicity.

Mike Del Vecchio


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 641
Pennsylvania Trolley Museum is honored to see our 1930 Westinghouse diesel Armco B-73 included in this august list. For the record B-73 is opeational and readily available for viewing and--when the museum is open--inspection. We believe it to be the oldest operational diesel in North America. Any contenders?


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 Post subject: Re: Locomotive Magazine's "must see" diesel preservation gra
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:24 pm
Posts: 442
Location: Scranton, PA
Looking at the raw numbers, the 663 project had almost half of the votes cast.
But sadly, in total only 872 votes were cast. I know Mike DelVecchio did a great job in getting the word out regarding the 663 ballot, especially on Facebook. The success is that this locomotive, along with her partner 664, have a following covering more than just one group. The Tri-State and Anthracite connection, along with the Steamtown connection and the passing fancy of general railfans who might have ridden behind her were the selling points of the popularity contest.

The next 2 runners up with about 150 votes each show that they have a loyal following among their core fans, but do they run? If so, when was the last time they ran?

We often speak about the short memories of the public. Here it is right before us. 664 and 663 last ran in June, 2013. They would have had a better track record if the compressor in 663 did not break down.

Another comparison is the Reading FP7 combo, which also has two preservation groups partnering, and the Steamtown connection. Yet, they could only muster 18 votes. I saw no appeal from the Reading Tech Society or the Philadelphia Chapter to get out the vote. They also have not run on the rails since 2010.

Moral of the story is if you want to preserve your important piece of history, then make it important to the public. Welcome them to your site and your locomotive/car/caboose. When they take some sort of pride in your project, they will make your job much easier in public exposure, fundraising and security.

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