It is currently Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:42 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:24 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Poconos/Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
How much are these Westinghouse air pumps worth? They are available for sale, but the seller wants a rough market value before negotiating a specific price.

http://piersa2001.smugmug.com/Other/WAB ... &k=cGq5KJx

The pumps have been sitting for at least 30 years. The steam cylinders appear to be about 9 1/2 inches in diameter.

If anyone is interested in purchasing them, feel free to PM me an offer and I can give it to the seller, but for the moment, a ballpark estimate of value is what is needed so the seller knows what they are dealing with and can make an informed decision. The pumps are located in a building that will be demolished this winter.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3540
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Checked this thread in Classifieds:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30496

Note that those compressors are a bit larger; the ones your acquaintance has may actually be an 8"-size (there appears to be an 8 on one of the cylinders, which would be a reference to internal bore), and although they might be restorable, they are not operational.

I have to admit to being intrigued by the facility in the background. It looks like it was a machine shop of some kind. Are you at liberty to say more about it and what other goodies, like machine tools, might be in it?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5660
Location: southeastern USA
The difficulty is there's no practical means of knowing - without tearing down and measuring and inspecting - whether these are on their last oversize before condemnation or of they have a couple or so borings left in the cylinders before condemnation. A pump on its first factory bore can be rebored a few times to stock oversizes before it must be junked. Consequently, it is worth much more than one with no extra metal left in it.

Sitting for 30 years - the location doesn't seem too controlled and dry, nor does it appear any maintenance has been done - is another red flag which could indicate rings seized in the bores which would be a complete overhaul is required.....couple this with a nonstock size......

I think he'd be well served to either post them on Ebay at ridiculous prices to see if anybody foams enough to bite, or ask for offers as is where is from the steam community. I could see the Maine 2 foot guys using a pump with an 8 inch bore.

Dave

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:24 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Poconos/Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
Thank you both for the replies. I'm not sure if they want me to give away the location of the facility (its in Eastern PA), but there are also several small steam turbine driven water pumps and two Ingersoll-Rand steam powered air compressors. One is a straight line unit with twin flywheels, a 12 x 11 inch steam cylinder, and a 12 x 10 inch air cylinder. Probably weighs 5 or 6 tons. I can probably look that up sometime. The other is a monstrous Imperial Type 10 Cross Compound. The heavy pieces can be had for $350 a ton. The machine shop was already scrapped, but there is a big pipe threader not far from the compressors. It is covered in rust, but I can send pics if anyone is curious.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
Posts: 1194
Location: South Carolina
Dave wrote:
The difficulty is there's no practical means of knowing - without tearing down and measuring and inspecting - whether these are on their last oversize before condemnation or of they have a couple or so borings left in the cylinders before condemnation. A pump on its first factory bore can be rebored a few times to stock oversizes before it must be junked. Consequently, it is worth much more than one with no extra metal left in it.



Dave,

Can't they be "sleeved" like an auto engine block?

_________________
Hugh Odom
The Ultimate Steam Page
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5660
Location: southeastern USA
I don't know if it is practically possible, theoretically maybe. Westinghouse did not use or sanction that method. I learned what I know about official standards and practices for WABCO compressor rebuilds from Bernie Watts, who certainly knows much more than I do about them, but he follows the WABCO recommendations since he guarantees his workmanship. Since I don't want the brakes on my train dependent on any potentially unreliable repair technique, I'd be reluctant to try it unless it was on something that didn't matter just for research purposes.

I don't metal spray axles or wheel contours either.

dave

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:40 pm
Posts: 239
Location: Minersville, PA
I would consider them as pure junk, especially the one on the right. The last time I saw them was about 20 years ago when I was rummaging through the powerhouse and the property. Only an expert could possibly get them into operating condition with a lot of new parts. I was wondering if they were still on site.

Bernie


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:24 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2409
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
They are worth saving, if nothing else for parts. In their present condition they are probably not worth much more than scrap value.

_________________
Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:06 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am
Posts: 526
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA
There were industrial stationary pumps and there were railroad pumps and they were not the same. These actually look like locomotive design pumps, but looks can be decieving.

Call Midwest (Mt. Pleasant Iowa) and send photos and measurements to offer them as cores for the usable parts, they used to buy cores.

_________________
Loco112 (NarrowGaugeExchange Forum)

Our "paper" archives will be the future railfans only hope. We (yes you too!) should endeavor to preserve all the info needed to allow them 100% accuracy in the building of their recreations.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:16 pm
Posts: 93
For a time I worked in the former MK&T railroads' diesel shop here in town. The building is now owned by a railroad contractor. I had the run of the place....maintenance man. Upstairs on the mezzanine in what was formerly a machine shop I ran across one of these steam powered air compressors. Mounted up on some of the steel work along with a riveted air receiver to provide air for whatever function they performed down in that end of the shop. Everything had been removed from the shop are but this thing.

Anyhow, the last time the UP844 came to town on tour I, as a UP employee, climbed up in the cab and was talking to the enginemen about things in general and I mentioned that there happened to be one of those compressors still in place over there in the shop building... in disuse.

They all piped up and said "Don't let Steve (Lee) find out about that or he'll have us over there taking it down.

We finished talking and I climbed back down and went back to work. About 30 minutes later I saw 3 guys climb into the chase truck and it took off and they made a dust trail as they sped over to the shop building... found out later from fellows who work at the shop that they indeed did get a visit from the steam crew who requested and were allowed to take down that pump....


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 862
Location: NJ
Its been a good 30 years since I've been down in the engineroom of the cruiser Olympia in Philadelphia, but I remember a pair of single stage compressors on one of the bulkheads. So they were used on ships as well as for stationary purposes.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:50 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2267
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
The Chestnut Hill pumping plant in Boston has a single lung compressor with a Crown Railway build plate. I think the date was 197x. I noticed it while touring about ten years ago. It is down in the pit of the triple expansion pump.

The ferry Badger has cross compound pumps in the boiler room.

_________________
Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5660
Location: southeastern USA
I think we can take it as given that air compressors either similar to or in some cases identical to steam locomotive pumps were used in other settings, wherever steam was handy and air was needed. Crown bought out WABCO's air pump business. Backshop bought it from Crown.

Does anybody have any specific advice for the gentleman who has them to dispose of and good data to back his advice?

dave

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:09 pm
Posts: 376
Location: Los Angeles
These steam powered compressors were also used in the early oilfield and refinery industries. In the remore field they had boilers for steam so these pumps were the logical choice. A lot of refineries used them as well because boilers were common and refinery units may have been somewhat remote. Once again the steam powered air pump was used. The engine rooms on the battleship Texas has single cylinder airpumps on the bulkheads.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Westinghouse Air Pumps
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am
Posts: 526
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA
Dave wrote:
Does anybody have any specific advice for the gentleman who has them to dispose of and good data to back his advice?dave


Yes.

CALL MIDWEST, in the past they published thier core prices, or call Dave's freind Bernie and work out a deal with him.

It is still to be determined if those are industrial or railroad pumps, they are not the same. The bores need to be measured in order to determine what they are, and that would also idenetify if there is iron left for taking the factory over bores. The shuttle valves need to be looked at, all the parts need to be looked at to determin thier condition and value, or the seller is going to have to take what he can get, or keep them.

If the seller wants top dollar he is going to have to quantify what he has, or pay someone to quantify what he has, or take what he can get from whom ever is offering, or just keep them.

_________________
Loco112 (NarrowGaugeExchange Forum)

Our "paper" archives will be the future railfans only hope. We (yes you too!) should endeavor to preserve all the info needed to allow them 100% accuracy in the building of their recreations.


Last edited by Loco112 on Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], jettrainfan, Majestic-12 [Bot], NYCRRson, philip.marshall and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: