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 Post subject: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:02 am 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
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Location: Switching the Coach Yard
In the spirit of providing you guys the very best in mostly useless trivia/info, we have this from the home office at MP 9. We were playing around with how many of these were still with us and or what has happened to them over the years. The list is certainly not fully developed with dispositions, but its a start. Feel free to add or modify.

Between 1946 and the end of production the Edw. G. Budd Company built 51 flat top (non dome) observation cars. They built 18 blunt end models and 33 round end models. Here is a rough breakdown:

Round End Cars:

25 for NYC --

7 cars, sleeper lounge obs.
Singing Brook
Sunrise Brook -- to Jones Properties
Wingate Brook -- ex. Les Kasten @ Gateway Rail
Babbling Brook -- Amtrak approved, last spotted on Long Island
Fall Brook
Plum Brook -- Bill Gray, Evansville, Indiana
Bonnie Brook -- New Orleans NRHS

18 cars, parlor lounge obs.
NYC 58 and 59 plus 62 thru 70 all went to NdeM -- presumed scrapped
48 -- to KCS 43 -- to Michigan Artrain
49
50
51 -- to KCS 42
60
61 -- to Denver Rail Car -- to Delaware and Ulster


6 cars for SAL -- Tavern Lounge
6600 -- Roger McRea, New Orleans, LA
6601 -- Naples Florida, static display
6602
6603
6604 -- Bluewater Michigan NRHS
6605 -- Oceana, CA restaurant


2 cars for FEC -- Tavern Lounge
Hobe Sound -- This car is out there somewhere, right?
St. Lucie Sound -- Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad


1 car for CofG -- Tavern Lounge
Fort Benning -- ETRC


Blunt End Cars:

5 cars for SP -- all 10 roomette, 6 bedroom!
9025 -- scrapped
9026 -- scrapped
9027 -- to Judge Hofheinz for Astrodomain Hotel
9028 -- scrapped
9029 -- scrapped


4 cars for PRR -- these were the "Congo" cars
7126 Benjamin Frankiln -- EMDX dynamometer car
7127 Martha Washington
7128 George Washington -- Denver Railcar?
7129 Alexander Hamilton -- Denver Railcar to Morristown and Erie


3 cars for ACL -- Tavern Lounge
255 -- GSMR?
256 -- wrecked and scrapped
257 -- to Eagle Canon Railcar


3 cars for C&O -- lunch counter lounge -- Chessie cars
1920
1921 -- BCOL 150 to ONR 908 One of these at RJCorman, One is an office car
1922


2 cars for DL&W -- Phoebe Snow and the only slab side Budd obs cars?
789 -- at CDOT as a business car
790 -- at CDOT as a business car


1 car for FEC -- Tavern Lounge
Lake Okochobee -- Railway Expo in Cincinatti

ETA


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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:12 am 

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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Neat list!

One of the NYC/KCS cars survives somewhere down south. Mr. Dean Levin had photos of it. It had an interesting repair from its KC service where some of the fluted siding was replaced by flat sides towards the end of the boat tail.

I think the C&O/RJ Corman car is not part of the Lexington, KY dinner train operation after spending many years in Bardstown.

Certainly blows my mind that the NYC had 25 of these! Gives you an idea of the size of the passenger service they operated.

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:36 am 

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The two DL&W cars belong to Metro-North (NY State MTA), not to Connecticut DOT.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:41 am 

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The Branson Scenic is currently running a former ACL Budd Lounge / Obs in their excursion train. I don't know which of the three listed above this one is. From their website:

PPCX 800336, “Westport”, 1939 Budd Lounge Observation (From Atlantic Coastline's “Champion”)

http://www.bransontrain.com/depot/depot.htm#equipment

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:27 am 

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Location: Illinois
etalcos wrote:

4 cars for PRR -- these were the "Congo" cars
7126 Benjamin Frankiln -- EMDX dynamometer car
7127 Martha Washington
7128 George Washington -- Denver Railcar?
7129 Alexander Hamilton -- Denver Railcar to Morristown and Erie

During one of EMD's open houses (1983?), I distinctly remember seeing the "George Washington" in the La Grange plant.

A friend of mine pointed and said "Look, a Burlington car". I pointed to the very faded, but still legible keystone, and remarked "Burlington? MY A__!!, This is a PENNSY car!"

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
I need to verify if this car is still here. This Google Map street view in from 2011 -- it has been at the location for some time.
Attachment:
GoogleMap_1922_E_Vernon_Vernon_CA.jpg
GoogleMap_1922_E_Vernon_Vernon_CA.jpg [ 49.99 KiB | Viewed 10172 times ]

This location is about half block east of Alameda Street.
Here is another view -- looks like the car is still up on trucks. But it has a door cut into the side of the lounge.
Attachment:
GoogleMap_1922_E_Vernon_Vernon_CA-2.jpg
GoogleMap_1922_E_Vernon_Vernon_CA-2.jpg [ 35.17 KiB | Viewed 10172 times ]

This may be the same one that first arrived in the greater Los Angeles area sometime in the 1970s

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:29 am 

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Location: Southern California
SP9027 was later purchased by Craig Rasmussen and lettered as "Overland Rail Travel" 9027 - "Tehachapi." Used in charter service and leased to Amtrak during one of the early summer seasons for use LA-Seattle along with two other privately owned 10-6 cars. The car was later sold to Mexico.

Rasmussen was one of several owners of Overland Rail Travel to which the car was leased for operation. Rasmussen also had SP P-S blunt-end 10-6 #9043 which was also leased to Amtrak that one summer.

When Overland Rail Travel was dissolved the the various owners disposed of their cars in different ways Rasmussen also had a modernized UP heavyweight chair car that was given to Orange Empire. One of the other owners had modernized UP diner 4054 that was given to San Diego RR Museum at Campo, Cal.

(The third car leased to Amtrak that summer was Great Western Tours ex-WP 10-6 sleeper "Silver Canyon.")

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:19 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Hmm...let me see...

Just for fun, I've added some prewar cars that come to mind, probably overlooking a few:

Round End Cars:

New York Central:

Three Cars, 1949, Lot #9636-023, Plan #9508, NYC Lot #2204, 5DB-25 seat buffet lounge observation:

NYC #10564 Singing Brook sold 1959 to CP as Mountain View sold 1969 to Algoma Central as Canyon View sold (when?) to unknown party

NYC #10565 Sunrise Brook to #10631 in 1958 sold 1964 to Jones Properties to NdeM*

*Randall lists Jones Properties, and Terry Link lists NdeM

NYC #10566 Wingate Brook to #10632 in 1958 sold 1968 to Judge Roy Hofheinz-Astrodomain sold 1972 to Amtrak #3260 sold 11/1983 to unknown party to Les Kasten to Gateway

Four Cars, 1949, Lot #9664-023, Plan #9506, NYC Lot #2202, 5DB-25 seat buffet lounge observation:

NYC #10560 Babbling Brook sold 1959 to CP as Seaview sold 1969 to Quebec Cartier Mining Company as #847 sold (when?) to Tyler Robbins (#800007) recently listed on Ozark Mountain Railcar website

NYC #10562 Fall Brook sold 1959 to CP as Eastview sold 1969 to United Railroad Supply (Montreal)

NYC #10563 Plum Brook sold 1959 to CP as Riverview sold 1969 to Quebec Cartier Mining Company as #846 sold (when?) to Bill Gray

NYC #10561 Bonnie Brook to #10670 in 1958 sold 1964 to Jones Properties* sold 1964 to Fred Corriher (Landis, SC)

*Randall lists Fred Corriher, and Terry Link lists Jones Properties

Four Cars, 1948, Lot #9634-004, NYC Lot #2174, 53 seat buffet lounge observation, changed to 8 seat lunch counter 32 seat lounge observation by KCS in 1963:

NYC #48 sold 12/1959 to KCS #44 to #43 1963 sold 1970 to William Dowd (Baton Rouge, LA) to Artrain (ARTX) after Artrain shut down, the #43 was stored for several years at Amtrak's Midway Station in the Twin Cities (saw the car from the EB Empire Builder in 2009).

NYC #49 sold 12/1959 to KCS #45 to #41 1963 sold 1970 to William Dowd (Baton Rouge, LA)

NYC #50 sold 12/1959 to KCS #46 to #40 1963 sold 1970 to William B. Stewart-Riley Boosters Club

NYC #51 sold 12/1959 to KCS #47 to #42 1963 sold 1970 to Brewton Lumber (Winfield, LA)

Two Cars, 1941, Lot #96205, NYC Lot #2148, 54 seat bar lounge observation:

NYC #54 Franklin D. Roosevelt sold 1958 to Jones Properties sold 1958 to NdeM*

NYC #55 Theodore Roosevelt sold 1958 to Jones Properties sold 1958 to NdeM*

*Randall lists the #54 as Theodore Roosevelt and #55 as Franklin D. Roosevelt, Link lists the #54 as Franklin D. Roosevelt and #55 as Theodore Roosevelt

Thirteen Cars, 1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177, 30 seat parlor 10 seat lounge observation, #60 and #67 changed to 40 seat coach 15 seat lounge by Amtrak:

NYC #58 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 10/1959 to NdeM

NYC #59 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 10/1959 to NdeM

NYC #60 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 7/1964 to Ringling Brothers sold 1968 to Judge Roy Hofheinz-Astrodomain sold 1972 to Amtrak #3870* retired 10/1981

NYC #61 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 1965 to Johnnie's Vets Club (Des Moines)* to Denver Railcar (DRCX) #9061 to Delaware & Ulster

NYC #62 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 12/1957 to NdeM

NYC #63 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 12/1957 to NdeM

NYC #64 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 12/1957 to NdeM

NYC #65 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 12/1957 to NdeM

NYC #66 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 1964 to NdeM*

NYC #67 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 10/1965 to Ringling Brothers sold 1968 to Judge Roy Hofheinz-Astrodomain sold 1972 to Amtrak #3871* retired 2/1981

NYC #68 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 5/1958 to NdeM

NYC #69 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 12/1957 to NdeM

NYC #70 (1948, Lot #9638-004, NYC Lot #2177) sold 1961 (5/1962) to NdeM*

*For #60 and #67, Randall lists Hofheinz in 1968 and Link lists Ringling in 1964/65. For #61, Randall lists the Vets Club in 1965 and Link lists KCS in 8/1966. For #66, Randall lists NdeM in 1964 and Link lists KCS in 8/1966. For #70, Randall lists the sale to NdeM as 1961 and Link lists the sale as 5/1962. For the five cars listed as sold to NdeM in 12/1957, Randall lists the sale as 1958 and Link lists the sale as 12/1957.

Seaboard Air Line:

Six Cars, 1947, Lot #9634-009, 59 seat bar lounge observation:

SAL #6600/SCL #5840/Amtrak #3340 sold 11/1975 to Roger McRea (New Orleans)*

SAL #6601/SCL #5841/Amtrak #3341 sold 11/1977 to model railroading group in Naples, FL and lettered for ACL property acquired by Collier County Museum and relettered to SAL--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showpicture.aspx?id=427265 (M.A. Lowry photo)

SAL #6602/SCL #5842/Amtrak #3342 retired 10/1981

SAL #6603/SCL #5843/Amtrak #3343 sold 8/1983 to Boca Raton Historical Society as E.M. Lynn--see here: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3366/3275563452_6f27823fde_o.jpg (Earl C. Leatherberry photo) (click once to enlarge)*

SAL #6604/SCL #5844/Amtrak #3344 sold 3/1982 to Bluewater Michigan Chapter NRHS as Global Star IV to TVRM and recently used on NS steam excursions*

SAL #6605/SCL #5845/Amtrak #3345 sold 11/1977 to Rock-n-Roll Diner (Oceana, CA)--see here: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2674/3988742882_dc754bb421_o.jpg (Michael Van Greenspun photo) (click once to enlarge)

*SCL added rear-end diaphrams to #6600, #6603, and #6604 for mid-train service.

Florida East Coast:

Two Cars, 1947, Lot #9634-005, 57 seat bar lounge observation:

FEC Hobe Sound sold 1968 to Transit Enterprises Corporation (Jacksonville)

FEC St. Lucie Sound sold 1968 to Jersey Coast Commuters Club to CVSR

Two Cars, 1939, Lot #96705, 57 seat bar lounge observation:

FEC Bay Biscayne sold 1965 to SAL #6607 to SCL #5851 to Amtrak #3339 sold 1981 to Standard Industries to Jim Stephenson to private owner to Broadway Dinner Train (BWDX) #6607 City of Memphis to New Georgia Railroad (NGRX) #1508 Steve Polk to Stone Mountain (ASML) #1508 Samuel Hawkins*

FEC Lake Worth sold 1965 to SAL #6606 to SCL #5850 to Amtrak #3338 sold 1981 to unknown party to BC Rail (BCOL) #1751 Pavilion for Pacific Starlight Dinner Train to VIA Rail #1751*

*SAL added rear-end diaphrams to #6606 and #6607 for mid-train service.

Atlantic Coast Line:

Two Cars, 1939, Lot #96805, 57 seat bar lounge observation:

ACL #250 wrecked in 1943

ACL #251 rebuilt to blunt end in 1957 to SCL #5830 to Amtrak #3330 sold 2/1981 to Heritage Rail Corporation Westport (#800336) to Branson Scenic

Pennsylvania Railroad:

One Car, 1940, Lot #96408, PRR POC85/POC85R, 51 seat buffet lounge observation:

PRR #1126 scrapped 1968

Reading Company:

Two Cars, 1937, Lot #982, 56 seat coach 14 seat smoker observation, Crusader:

RDG #1 sold 1964 to CN #304 to RR Museum of Pennsylvania--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3048882 (Bob Vogel photo)

RDG #5 sold 1964 to CN #302 to D.A. Walmsley & Company (DAWX) #302 to Washington Central Spirit of Washington Dinner Train (WCRC) #105 Chateau Ste. Michelle to Columbia Basin Railway Spirit of Washington (CBRW) (same name and number). After operations moved from Renton to Tacoma and later ceased in 2005, the cars were stored on the Chelatchie Prairie in Vancouver, WA, before being acquired by Iowa Pacific-San Luis & Rio Grande (SLRG) in 2012 for the Santa Cruz & Monterey Bay operation. Except for the two ex-MARC/nee-B&O covered wagons that pulled the train, none of the ex-Spirit of Washington rolling stock have returned to service, as the cars are being refurbished at the shops in Colorado. See here: http://imagestorage.nerail.org/photos/2006/11/24/2006112422430017630.jpg (Thomas McCann photo) (click once to enlarge)

Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe:

One Car, 1937, Lot #967, 2DR-3C-1DB-14 seat lounge observation, Super Chief:

AT&SF Navajo sold 1957 to Intermountain Chapter NRHS to Colorado Railroad Museum (Golden, CO). The Navajo is one of three surviving cars from the original Super Chief. 36 seat diner #1474 Cochiti is at CSRM (indoors and open to the public) and club lounge-barber-dormitory #1370 Acoma was recently restored and upgraded to Amtrak requirements as #800720. The Acoma is owned by John Bond and Ronald & Lorie Ashcraft through Southwest Rail Car LLC. Work was performed by Monad Railway Equipment.

Two Cars, 1938, Lot #992, 50 seat coach 2 seat smoker observation, coach seats reduced to 36 in 1947:

AT&SF #3198 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2946 in 1961 sold 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2424 to NJT #2424

AT&SF #3199 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2947 in 1960 sold 1970 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2407 to NJT #2407 sold 1989 to Cedar Rapids & Iowa City #115 sold 1994 to CVSR #115 sold to Oklahoma Railway Museum (OKRX) #115 Kerr McGee Explorer

Five Cars, 1938, Lot #996, 32 seat parlor 1 seat lounge observation:

AT&SF #3240 reconfigured to 58 seat coach 2 seat smoker observation in 1938 coach seats reduced to 36 in 1947 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2957 in 1962 sold 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2426 to NJT #2426

AT&SF #3241 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2948 in 1959 sold 1969 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2408 to NJT #2408 sold (when?) to Wallowa Union Railroad-Eagle Cap (WURR) #3241 (Elgin, OR)

AT&SF #3242 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2949 in 1959 sold 1969 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2409 to NJT #2409

AT&SF #3243 reconfigured to 58 seat coach 2 seat smoker observation in 1938 coach seats reduced to 36 in 1947 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2958 in 1962 to Amtrak #4460 retired 1981

AT&SF #3244 reconfigured to 58 seat coach 2 seat smoker observation in 1938 coach seats reduced to 36 in 1947 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2959 in 1962 to Amtrak #4461 retired 1981

One Car, 1941, Lot #96905, 58 seat coach 2 seat smoker observation, coach seats reduced to 36 in 1947:

AT&SF #3245 rebuilt to 44 seat coach #2960 in 1962 to Amtrak #4462 retired 1981

Blunt End Cars:

Pennsylvania Railroad:

Two Cars, 1952, Lot #9635-110, PRR POC85B, 18 seat parlor 25 seat lounge observation:

PRR #7128 George Washington to PC #7128 to Amtrak #3711 sold 1977 to SP to Denver Railcar?? to Western New York Railway Historical Society to Monad Railway Equipment

PRR #7129 Alexander Hamilton to PC #7129 to Amtrak #3712 sold 1977 to SP to Denver Railcar to Morristown & Erie #2006 (#800745)

Two Cars, 1952, Lot #9649-110, PRR POC85C, 14 seat parlor 25 seat lounge observation:

PRR #7126 Benjamin Franklin to PC #7126 sold 1979 to GM/EMD test and dynamometer car (EMDX) #ET820--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=56316 (Keith Belk photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1098910 (Jerry LaBoda collection)

PRR #7127 Martha Washington to PC #7127 to Morristown & Erie and stored--see here: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5142/5643873975_68da9b66f7_o.jpg (R36 Coach photo) (click once to enlarge)

Atlantic Coast Line:

Three Cars, 1941, Lot #96810, 57 seat bar lounge observation:

ACL #252 to SCL #5831 to Amtrak #3331 sold 1983 to American Zephyr #3331 Champion (#800009) to GSMR #3331

ACL #253 to SCL #5832 to Amtrak #3332 sold 1981 to Palooka's Diner (Wilkes-Barre) scrapped 2012

ACL #254 to SCL #5833 to Amtrak #3333 sold 1981 to private owner to Gold Coast RR Museum

Two Cars, 1947, Lot #96814/#9634-003, 57 seat bar lounge observation:

ACL #255 to SCL #5834 to Amtrak #3334 sold 10/1983 to private owner Coconut Grove (#800011) to Grand Canyon #255 Chief

ACL #256 to SCL #5835 to Amtrak #3335 sold 10/1981 to West Virginia Central

One Car, 1947, Lot #9634-008, 57 seat bar lounge observation:

ACL #257 to SCL #5836 to Amtrak #3336 sold 3/1982 to private owner #800080

Florida East Coast:

One Car, 1947, Lot #96714/#9634-002, 57 seat bar lounge observation

FEC Lake Okeechobee sold 1968 to LIRR #2064 Apaquogue retired 1975 sold 1976 to Tom McOwen sic* stored for a time in Kansas City to Railway Exposition Company to Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati

*Randall has the spelling as Tom McKeowen, and Phil Dohmen has the spelling as Tom McOwen. McOwen currently owns CB&Q North Coast Limited Budd dome coach #558 and SP Sunset Limited Budd 10-6 sleeper #9020 through the Cincinnati Railway Company.

Chesapeake & Ohio

Three Cars, 1948, Lot #9672-017, 5 seat lunch counter 16 seat diner 24 lounge observation:

C&O #1920 to Amtrak #8300 sold 6/1985 to private owner #800096

C&O #1921 to Amtrak #8301 sold 3/1985 to BC Rail (BCOL) #150 Indigo to Ontario Northland (ONT) #908--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3607570 (Richard Gorddard photo)

C&O #1922 to Amtrak #8302 sold 3/1985 to private owner to R.J. Corman

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

3. Information from Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages at: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

4. Information from Robert Schoenberg's PRR passenger car diagrams at: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=pass&sz=sm&fr=

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:54 am 

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Landis, home of Corriher Mills, is in North Carolina.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:42 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
New York Central 48, according to a post at the B&O Museum blog at http://borailroad.blogspot.com/2012/09/ ... ounge.html :

Quote:
[Sold by ARTrain] to Kasten Railcar Service who converted the car to head end power and did the glued-on veneer interior redecoration. The car was then run on charters out of St. Louis.

Approximately 1995 Kasten traded the car to MARC for ten RDC cars(!). MARC had Kasten retruck the car to Pennsylvania Railroad trucks for commonality with the MARC Heritage car fleet. MARC then upgraded the car with a Stadco generator, a Moran HVAC control and emergency glass windows. The car operated on about five special events and was used as a meeting room for special meetings. It was then loaned to the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Museum.

At some point during this time, one of the stools at the lunch counter was removed as the car currently only has seven stools.

In 2002 MARC signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Museum. This MOU allowed the Museum to use the car to provide HEP power for the MARC donated Heritage coaches being used by the Museum for its Mile One Express train ride to where the First Stone of the B&O Railroad was laid on 4 July 1828. In January 2009 MARC donated the car to the Museum where it is today.


More on NYC 48-51, from same source:

Quote:
In 1960 all four cars were sold to Kansas City Southern Railroad with #48 being renumbered to KCS #44. The cars were then sent to Pullman Company in 1963 to have the bar area replaced with an 8 seat (stool) lunch counter, the tavern and lounge areas of 53 seats replaced with a 32 seat lounge, two windows behind the bar area removed and the car painted in the KCS colors of black with yellow and red stripes at the bottom. The car was again renumbered to KCS #43. While on the KCS, these cars ran between Kansas City and New Orleans in the Southern Belle, as well as between Kansas City and Port Arthur, Texas in the Flying Crow.

KCS #43 was retired in 1970 and sold to William Dodd, Baton Rouge, LA along with NYC #49. J. F. Williams then bought it, renamed it “Starlight Forty-Eight” and ran it on the Branson Scenic Railway. It was then bought by John Hickman who restored it to the NYC #48 exterior. Around 1980 it was occasionally stored at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, MD.

Soon after that it was transferred to Bill Jenkins, associated with the Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville, IN. He put the car into Amtrak charter service, usually doing round trip weekend excursions on the “shop train” between Beech Grove, IN Amtrak shops and Chicago. During this time it was listed under the Amtrak private car number 800083. The number is still on the side of the car.


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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:47 am 

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Quote:
Two Cars, 1939, Lot #96705, 57 seat bar lounge observation:

FEC Bay Biscayne sold 1965 to SAL #6607 to SCL #5851 to Amtrak #3339 sold 1981 to Standard Industries to Jim Stephenson to private owner to Broadway Dinner Train (BWDX) #6607 City of Memphis to New Georgia Railroad (NGRX) #1508 Steve Polk to Stone Mountain (ASML) #1508 Samuel Hawkins*


This car went to Stone Mountain as 1508 Steve Polk and remained there until being acquired by the Southwest Georgia Railroad Excursion Authority in 2002. It was not until then, when it became part of the S.A.M. Shortline operation, that it was given the name "SAMUEL H. HAWKINS" in honor of the founder of the Savannah, Americus & Montgomery Railway (SAM Ry.). The car retains #1508.

This car was built as part of FEC's consist contribution to the ACL's "Champion" service and was on the end of the first southbound Champion leaving Pennsylvania Station on December 1, 1939. Sister car Lake Worth was built for FEC's "Henry M. Flagler" but was assigned to the "Dixie Flagler" on December 17, 1940.

I've not been able to come up with a date for when Bay Biscayne was acquired by the New Georgia, but it had to be after 1988, since a roster published in the Feb. 1989 issue of Trains does not include it. Mr. Steve Polk was the Director of the Georgia Building Authority and the car was named in his honor. Mr. Polk died in March, 1990, so my guess is the car was new to the roster when he died. The other cars already had corporate sponsors and names so it would probably be safe to say the 1508 came to New Georgia in late 1989 or early 1990. Another car, reportedly former ACL Pullman-Standard coach #237 had been acquired in 1987 and assigned #1508, but by 1988 the car had been converted to lounge #100 "Coca Cola".

The "Steve Polk" was not included in the New Georgia Railroad equipment auction on August 24, 1995 since it and another car were already obligated to the Stone Mountain Park Authority (a transfer of state property from one state authority to another.)

When it came to the SAM Shortline the "Steve Polk" was an open car. Who was responsible for removal of the interior and the other interior changes is another question I have, but fortunately, the bar had been retained when the lounge area seating had been removed. Between 2005 and 2007 the SAM Shortline worked to do a restoration of the lounge seating based on original layout of the lounge section. We wanted to put reproduction seating in the obs lounge but money ran out, so tables & chairs are used in the obs section.

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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:51 pm 

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An interesting thread.

A few items:

The SAL 6604 in 1982 was sold to John McGoff and his Global Industries. He re-named it Global Star IV. While the car did frequently appear on Bluewater Chapter trains, it wasn't officially sold to Bluewater until C. 1995. The car was given a vestibule on the round end for mid-train operation that McGoff had removed.

I think there is some debate on which NYC car ArtTrain really had. The car was gutted down to the bare metal, so there aren't any hints on the car. That explains why there are different histories for NYC 48 above.

Of the Santa Fe cars, how many were converted to flat-end mid-train cars? I can only think of one that wasn't, at the Age of Steam museum in Dallas/Frisco, but not sure if this is a Budd car or not.

Chris.


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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 241
What about additional rebuilds? Like Silver Chalet.

ex AMTK 9812
ex CB&Q 252
Originally WP 831 dorm-buffet-lounge 11/48
Rebuilt into open platform lounge by Northern Railcar for Quadgraphics.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... ?id=680939


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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 343
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Missed a couple of cars...

There were three coach - lounge observation cars built for Seaboard Air Line that lacked any sort of bar or buffet which Amtrak did not acquire since reportedly it would have taken too much effort to rebuild them with such. They were numbered SAL 6400 - 6402, with 6400 being rebuilt to a blunt-end observation car in 1943 (the other two remained round-end). All received SCL numbers 5820 - 5822 and all were rebuilt to Instruction cars, numbered 775002 - 775004, and were used as such by the SCL, Seaboard System and CSX prior to being sold off. Here are some links to the cars as SCL...

SCL 775002
SCL 775003
SCL 775003
SCL 775003 (image labeled wrong; in private ownership)
SCL 775003 in private ownership
SCL 775003
SCL 775003
SCL 775003
SCL 775004

I know all three are in private ownership but only the 775003 has been well documented in photos on the web. Does anyone have anything more that they can add?

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Passenger Car Photo Index Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Interurban Car Photo Index
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 Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 343
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
This may be the same one that first arrived in the greater Los Angeles area sometime in the 1970s


The car was stored for a time in 1978 on the Los Angeles Jct. Rwy., I was there when it first was brought on the line and weeks later when it was stored on an unused industrial siding with the passenger cars acquired by Los Angeles County. Wish I had a camera but then would have lost then anyways in a forest fire in 1985 when my mother's trailer burned down.

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jerry

Passenger Car Photo Index Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Interurban Car Photo Index
PCC Car Photo Index


Last edited by jmlaboda on Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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