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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Now according to the Committee minutes report, the decision was made by both Colleen Clack, the General Manager of Culture and Tourism for Guelph, and Tammy Adkin, the Manager of the Guelph Civic Museum.

Colleen.Clack@guelph.ca
Tammy.Adkin@guelph.ca

Let them know all the horrible things that happen to park engines.

They want the public to be able to "pet" the locomotive, and to be able to photograph the locomotive, without the obstruction of a fence.

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
letters sent


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
Colleen.Clack@guelph.ca
9:04 AM (3 hours ago)

to me, Tammy.Adkin
Good morning,

Thank you for your e-mail and for passing along your concerns. I can assure you that we've worked closely with our City Risk Management staff to assess the liability regarding the locomotive, and that we are fully aware of what risks may exist.

However, we need to balance this with what is in the greater good in terms of accessibility for the public, given the amount of work that has gone into the restoration and our desire for the public to be able to photograph it and view it up close without sight line issues. We have done best practice research into what other municipalities do with similar Locomotives, to ensure we are being consistent with the practices followed elsewhere. We have also looked into locomotives that have fences around them, and our research has revealed that fences have proved to be largely ineffective in deterring theft and vandalism.

We will continue to work with our Risk Management staff who look after insurance for the Locomotive to ensure that we are balancing the desire for public accessibility, while ensuring adequate safety and protection of this important asset.

Colleen
Colleen Clack | General Manager Culture & Tourism
Community and Social Services | City of Guelph

T 519-822-1260 ext 2588 | F 519-763-9240
E colleen.clack@guelph.ca


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Yes, a lot of that is pretty much verbatim what they have told me in person and in email.

What all this means is that when some drunk Univeristy student, or welfare case, both of which inhabit the area in the direct vicinity of the locomotive, falls off and ends up as a parapaligic, the city's insurance policy will handle the resultant lawsuit.

From 1967-2010, the locomotive had a fence and no one ever whined about not being able to "interact" with the locomotive, or about sight lines.

Now it's funny that she mentions the hard work that has gone into the project, and only one member of the committee actually works on the locomotive (and has steam experience) none of the other members have turned a single nut, OR have any steam experience.

As one who has personally sought out and acquired replacement parts for the locomotive, I'm pretty dissapointed that all MY hard work will go do the drain, as parts start getting stolen and damaged. As a volunteer, I find their attitude to be an absolute slap in the face, especially considering my 12 years with the project, which at the age of 28 is almost half of my life...

The best part is, because of the fence on the opposite side being six INCHES away from the locomotive, the side that thousands of people see EVERY DAY from the bus and train station WILL NOT GET FINISHED! We can't paint the white stripes on the running board, or apply the decals (including the maple leaf CNR herald) to the tender and cab (although we have the decals on hand) let alone complete any remaining reassembly jobs, and FORGET about maintenance down the road!

Back in the 2002 or 3, the original motion by the city of Guelph specified that a roof was supposed to be built over the locomotive. That concept disappeared along the way, and the fence too.

So as it stands, there is ZERO protection for this "Asset".

And what we will see is a repletion of the same cycle that the locomotive has been going though for past 47 years of looking good/ok for a year or two, then gradually falling into a state of total disrepair for many, many years. No one has learned the history lesson yet. Another thing we have failed to do, is to develop a group or association that WILL oversee it's ongoing care/maintenance/interpretation. So in several years, the locomotive will be looking quite awful once again, and next time, I don't think we will have access to same handful of talented people and knowledgeable steam people, who do in fact have most impressive resumes, that have tried their hardest to make something of this project, of course, only to be foiled by the committee at just about every turn...

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Last edited by joe6167 on Fri May 16, 2014 2:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
The other question is what do they have in mind FOR DETERRING theft and vandalism?

At the moment, there is little in the way of lighting, and, even though it sits next to a GO Transit station, none of its 1,000 cameras are aimed at the locomotive, and even the GO infrastructure is getting vandalized.

Recently one vandal went along the street where 6167 sits and tagged everything in sight, including the GO Transit shed on one side of the locomotive, and a whole bunch of street signs on the other side. The only thing that likely prevented this person from tagging the locomotive itself, was the temporary construction FENCE we have had around the locomotive over the past few years (which the committee is so eager to get rid of because of the cost of renting it...)

A friend once suggested that I retitle my website, How NOT To Restore A Steam Engine...

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 4:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 115
Location: Pennsylvania
My suggestion would be to ask the Friends of the 457 in Mason City, IA for advice in making 6167 both secure and accessible to the public.

http://friendsofthe457.org/default.aspx

As for the fence on the fireman's side, my suggestion would be to tell the city council that unless that fence is either removed or at least moved further away from the locomotive, the restoration cannot be finished, that is if you haven't tried that already. You could also point out that the fence being that close to the locomotive is counter-intuitive to their plans for her and will prevent people from the GO station platform from getting good pictures from that angle and would prevent people to get "up close" to that side.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 5:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Well the locomotive is right next to an active rail line, which is one factor making this so complicated. Of course this was all brought about by the city engineer which choose the spot and designed the concrete base, of course without consulting anyone...

That's the problem when you have so many different agencies involved in a project like this. The locomotive is owned by the city of Guelph, sits on property leased from CN by the Goderich and Exeter Railway, next to the VIA and Go Transit (A division of Metrolinx) Station and then who knows how many different divisions of City (Parks, Museums, etc.)

I guess this is another prime example of "Own Your Land" and "Own Your Equipment"

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 455
The city admitted the loco will be vandalized, so they should allow putting all the loco's jewelry into safe storage.

At least a low, symbolic fence of pipe rail would tell people not to climb on the engine. If there is no fence, people will think climbing is permitted. At my local RR museum, visitors climb on everything because they assume it's allowed.

Geeze the reasoning I'm reading from the city is making me cranky.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 7:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Quote:
ask the Friends of the 457 in Mason City


Oh wow! I see a roof and a Fence, and even Barbed wire!!!

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:58 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3752
Location: Maine
On behalf of New England Steam Corporation, I have sent an email to both officials, including photos of MEC 470 as placed without a fence, and as she appears today. I hope direct evidence of public access will have effect on their decision.

Keep agitating.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:32 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Oroville, CA
As a former city Curator, I can tell you that city officials can be very stubborn--especially if they don't really know what they are talking about (probably one reason I'm a "former" city Curator; I spoke my mind and sought outside sources when I was in over my head). However; they are all answerable to the City Council, and those may be the people we should also be posting to.
You have a battle on your hands, and the best way to persevere is to organize, create a "friends of 7176" type group--work towards a long-term preservation plan. I know this isn't easy; when I was younger than you, I started the "Friends of 1727" group to try to preserve SP 1727 on display in Dunsmuir--which, BTW IS inside a fence, erected a year after she was put on display because of all the vandalism that was happening back in 1957! The group did well until most of the members moved away when the lumber economy died & they had to find other jobs. We were able to even hydro the boiler, and using the city's large air compressor, blow the whistle for the Bicentennial in 1976 (and tested & lubed all the appliances too). Sadly, the recording of her whistle is all we have now, as the whistle was one of many stolen from display locos in Northern California a few years back.
A fence does not guarantee security, but it's a lot more prevention than no fence!!
Organize, Post the City Council and effect change (right now I'm part of a group doing this very thing to save our local historic vaudeville theatre--and the council is helping, much to the angst of the city administrators.--it CAN happen!).

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David Dewey
Help save the last overnight steamboat, Delta Queen!
Write your congressman to support and co-sponsor House Resolution HR-619. This bill only grants her permission to run; there is no cost to us taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 71
Have you spoken to the newspapers yet?

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 1:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3752
Location: Maine
Warning, Will Robinson! Warning!! If you go to the newspapers you can burn a bridge of communication very easily. You never want to put the city in a bad light. Helping the city find an amicable solution is what you want.

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Well, it's not the City per se, but just certain misguided individuals. In fact the city has been pretty good to us, on account of the fact that they are the ones paying for the restoration. I was actually thinking of writing to the Mayor, as it was my letter to her all those years ago, that started this whole project! (Or so I've been told). She's pretty cool, which is why she's been mayor 8 out of the last 12 years. (she lost an election but the mayor that replaced her was so awful, the town couldn't vote her back in fast enough!)

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News - 2014
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:29 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3752
Location: Maine
I got the form letter reply. Keep pressing for these fools to recant.

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