Red Hook trolley cars shipped to Connecticut as train buff cries foul
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/red ... -1.1608960

Oh, Lord. Not this guy again.

This Bob Diamond guy is the same one that used to lead tours of the "Atlantic Avenue Tunnel" (or LIRR Cobble Hill Tunnel), claiming it to be the "oldest subway tunnel in the world"........ well, let's just go to Wikipedia for a hint of neutrality between factions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobble_Hill_Tunnel

The guy was "leading" tours by putting out traffic cones and opening a manhole cover, with or without city sanction or permission, and charging "urban explorers" $15-25+ for the experience. If I'm piecing together the various news articles I read the other day correctly, he was told to stop by the city, he stopped for a while and then others resumed anyway, and recently the city welded the manhole cover shut to stop him and others.

He is also responsible for popularizing the legend that a steam locomotive is still entombed in part of the tunnel, allegedly an 1840s design: http://gothamist.com/2012/12/27/sealed_ ... nnel_a.php

Article from 2011, the first time it was closed:
http://gothamist.com/2011/08/24/bob_dia ... demise.php

The most recent article, four days ago:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/528092 ... nue-subway

From what I can tell from the articles, the guy seems to be a good storyteller and quite entertaining, if nerdy and seemingly obsessed (that describes a lot of us, in general), but apparently is very poor at business administration and political relationships (ditto). We don't know all the facts here and probably never will, but this has all the outward appearances of being another Dick Jensen scenario.

From 2002:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2478

2009:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26971

Also, read the press release at http://redhookwaterfront.com/2014/02/th ... lley-cars/ and find out "the rest of the story"--serious damage from Hurricane Sandy. And I have seen precedents for "mechanic's liens" being slapped on "transit vehicles" for unpaid storage/repair fees. (I obviously can't say if that happened in this instance, but....)

More:

www.gothamist.com/2014/02/10/photos_the ... were_r.php

Score one for "cy pres".

I don't understand why railfans keep being surprised by this. They collect stuff, leave it on other people's property and then, it stops being theirs. What were they expecting, other people to just lend them space forever?

Do they think abandonment (which certainly does apply to real estate) doesn't apply to trains?

Do they think the world will wait indefinitely for their "mean to"s and "grand plans"?

Even Howard Hughes, at least, got the Hercules into the air.

The only ones that should be surprised by this at all are:

1) people with defective thought processes, or

2) people who only hear one side of a story, often laced with lots of conspiracy-theory "sob stories" about their "oppression" by larger forces.

We get too many of the latter from selective consumption and sharing of news, be it from right-wing talk-radio and Fox News or "alternative press", websites, left-leaning media, and "fellow travelers" inclined to such conspiracy-think.

What distinguishes a skeptic or credible journalist from the "average Joe" is the ability to ask or discern, "Okay, what are they NOT telling me, and why not?" and then go find out or demand answers thereof..

The Shore Line Trolley Museum put out this press release regarding the Red Hook Cars:
Source: http://shorelinetrolley.org/news/

February 11, 2014

Branford Electric Railway Association, Inc./Shore Line Trolley Museum

PRESS RELEASE regarding Red Hook Trolleys

The Shore Line Trolley Museum has been the recipient of 3 PCC type streetcars donated by the O’Connell Organization of Red Hook, Brooklyn, NY. These three cars were previously part of an attempt to set up a trolley line in the area several years ago that did not work out. The cars have been moved to an off-site location well outside the NYC metro area in one last attempt to save them.

Some time ago, our organization was contacted by the O’Connell Organization to assist in trying to find these cars new homes, similar to what we have done for other museums. Over a year has now been spent in doing so, with several museums, transit systems currently running or contemplating heritage operations (such as San Francisco and St. Louis), even trolley car brokers and rebuilders (Gomaco and Brookville), all declining them as intact vehicles due to their location and damage from salt water from Hurricane Sandy. As our own museum also suffered considerable damage from Sandy, we can fully understand the lack of interest.

In a last ditch effort to save these cars, they were removed from the waterfront location they have been at for these many years on Sunday, February 9, 2014, loaded during the day and leaving at Midnight per NYC DOT regulations. They will be stored and given one more try via the internet and other media to find them a home. If by the end of spring we are unsuccessful, the cars will have any salvageable components removed for use in the streetcar preservation community and the remainder disposed of. The cars are not and will not be located at our museum, but are at a safe site, away from vandals and thieves.

We would like to commend and thank the O’Connell Organization for their sincere efforts in trying to save these cars, including a substantial donation to pay for their movement to a temporary refuge. Most other firms would have not had the patience to have had these cars on site as long as these have been there, nor willing to pay the considerable haulage cost to give them a chance. The O’Connell Organization truly did the right thing. At this point it will be up to the museum community or interested others to step up and save these cars or to let them go.

The cars are: Former Shaker Heights car 70 (which also ran in Minnesota) and ex-Boston cars 3321 and 3299. Boston 3321 is noted as the last streetcar built by the Pullman Company.

Those seriously interested in preserving these cars can contact Bill Wall, President Emeritus, c/o Shore Line Trolley Museum, 17 River Street, East Haven, CT 06512 for further information.

Well, unless he's got a chunk of change to support the legal fight, this probably is the writing on the wall for those trolleys.

Yep. They sure do. I have two words on this subject:
Dick Jensen.
'nuff said.

http://www.brooklynrail.net/proj_aatunnel.html

Men at Work / Tour in Progress:

BTW: How dare you not believe their "cesium vapor magnetometer images" of a buried steam locomotive!

"This won't end well" How? I think it ended very well, the cars weren't cut up on site by a scrapper.

Also, note on the roster of the "association" they had 12 other PCC cars from TCRT/SHRT that are listed as "wherabouts unknown" after being stored/abandoned at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

I'm sure those cars were probably recycled due to the incompotence of the organization.

They haven't been cut up yet. Right now, it doesn't seem to me that the market for used PCCs has enough demand that would warrant spending the amount of money necessary to save those cars. They're probably more valuable as parts sources if anything.

At the risk of offending, this "situation" isn't even close to the Jensen debacle. The Dick Jensen saga was a terrible outcome for several sound (if not terribly rare) locos in the late 1980s! How many ex-Boston PCCs are saved? A whole lot. Ditto for the ex-Minneapolis PCCs. I can't shed a tear if these cars go to their grave.

However, from an historic perspective, the last PCC built by Pullman does deserve saving by someone--perhaps the group that is revitalizing the Pullman plant in Illinois?

Thanks!

Jim -

Yes, a museum at the Pullman plant in Chicago, Illinois would be a great place for the last PCC car built by Pullman. BUT, if you check the recent "Frisco Diner-Lounge" thread here on RyPN you will note that there ARE no plans for a museum of Pullman related equipment at the Pullman complex. Very sad!

Les

More "media" coverage:

http://forgotten-ny.com/2014/02/red-hoo ... s-removed/

Rarity has nothing to do with it. It's the same overall concept, only this time the property owner said, "Fine, I'm having someone else remove them and they can have them" as opposed to breaking out the torches. What is being moved or cut up is actually not the point at all. It's a person who owns something he'll probably never do anything with, hoping the world will help him out and keeping something huge and heavy in someone else's property until they've seen it enough and does something about it.