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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:41 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Ouch!

The six derailed cars belong to the Orrville Railroad Heritage Society:

RPCX #104 City of Orrville (Budd, Lot #96807, 1940) built as ACL 56 seat coach #214, seating reduced in 1954 to 54, to SCL #5406 to Amtrak #5406 retired and sold in 1983 to Rail Diversified (Akron) sold in 1986 to Orrville as RPCX #104 and named City of Orrville.

RPCX #3125 Paul Revere (Budd, Lot #9628-110, 1951, Congressional) built as PRR Class PP85 29 seat parlor-1DR #7141 Paul Revere, galley space later added by PC, sold in 1971 to Amtrak #3641 reconfigured in 1976 to 46 seat buffet lounge #3327 numbered from November 1976 to May 1977 as #8367 converted in 1981 to HEP lounge #3125 retired and sold in 1995 to private ownership and used on California Western until washouts in 1998, stranded in Willits, sold in 2006 to Glenn Bowman and moved to Ohio as RPCX #3125.

RPCX #101 William B. Baer (Budd, Lot #9613-010, 1947, Silver Meteor) built as PRR Class P85E 52 seat coach #4064 to PC #4064 sold in 1974 to Amtrak #5286 reconfigured in 1974 to 60 seat coach #6073 sold in 1984 to Orrville as RPCX #101 and named William B. Baer.

RPCX #103 Robert S. Bixler (Budd, Lot #9613-001, 1946) built as AT&SF 52 seat coach #3155 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2438, later MTA #2438, retired and sold in 1985 to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) sold to RMNE, resold in 1986 to Orrville as RPCX #103, seating reduced to 68, and named Robert S. Bixler in 1989. Conflict: I had noted MTA #2438 as ending up in Madison, WI, at the former MILW depot, I'm now guessing the numberboards were switched at some point, probably when the cars were being prepped to be removed from Chuck & Eddie's.

RPCX #106 Ohio Presidents (Budd, Lot #96501, 1939, Silver Meteor) built as SAL 56 seat coach #6203 to SCL #5607 to Amtrak #5607 retired and sold in 1981 to MTA #2473 sold in 1985 to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) sold to RMNE, resold in 1986 to Orrville as RPCX #106 and named Ohio Presidents. Conflict: I had noted MTA #2473 as sold to Broadway Dinner Train, then to Tioga Central #365 Norris Brook.

RPCX #102 H. H. Wade (Budd, Lot #9613-004, 1947) built as NYC Lot #2171 56 seat coach #2905 to PC #2905 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #5675 sold in 1985 to Orrville as RPCX #102 and named H. H. Wade.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

3. Mike Palmieri's Amtrak rosters

4. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

5. Orrville RHS roster page: http://www.orrvillerailroad.com/rlngStk.html

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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:54 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1001
Location: Back in NE Ohio
The cars had been used for the Owosso Train Fest two weeks ago, I believe behind NKP 765. The 103 and 104 were the coaches used in the movie Unstoppable. Reports are this was a shoving accident at low speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:11 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2465
Location: S.F. Bay Area
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/detail.asp?id=1896


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:26 am 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 421
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
Considering the very limited time frame for removal, the non standard nature of the pre-war trucks, and the fact that they are pre-war cars, I don't see the world killing itself to save these 3. Unfortunate.


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:46 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 465
Location: Floyd, AR
The cars don't look to be terribly damaged, the main problem is that the running gear is damaged so they can't be set on their own wheels. Sounds like they could be a real bargain for someone with time and facilities on hand.

The real issue I see is shipping. Is there any (reasonable) way to move these cars out of there, on rail or truck? I mean intact, BTW.....

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Robert Longhofer,
Board Member, Cotton Belt Rail Historical Society, Arkansas Railroad Museum, steam engine SSW819.
Any information or opinions I express are my own, and are not the views of the CBRHS or anyone else, unless explicitly stated otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:15 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 421
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
Well so much for that. I guess someone did want them after all.

The listing is now gone off the Ozark Mountain site.

ETA


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 620
Location: Albany, Georgia
Not necessarily...bought, that is. Does anyone know for certain?

The listing went up on Monday, August 3, if I recall correctly (certainly no earlier than Saturday evening), with an absolute end of the auction at 8 pm Central time on Saturday, August 8. The listing came down almost immediately after 9 PM Eastern. Only someone with deep pockets and good contacts to TTX, the local railroad or a good trucking company could afford to purchase and then arrange for and meet the deadline for removal by August 21! That's not even 2 full weeks!

The "current owner" was never identified, as is usually the case in these listings, but I have to wonder if the Orrville Railroad Heritage Society took a settlement for the damage and loss of use of the cars, with ownership transferring to the insurance company or someone else (the party responsible for the damage, perhaps?)

As for the non-standard trucks, they're only non-standard by post-war standards. The RPCX 104 (ex-ACL) and 106 (ex-SAL) cars appear to have the original late-1930's/early-1940's trucks that were modified by SCL in the mid-1960's for single-shoe-per-wheel tread brakes. The center casting would still be original since the cars do not appear to have been retrofitted with larger-diameter center castings, as was the SAM Shortline Excursion Train's (http://www.samshortline.com) former FEC "Lake Worth" by Amtrak. But, these are details not included in the listing, and if you were interested in them you would have had to arrange for an inspection trip in less than a week.

I know it sounds like I'm complaining about something I really couldn't have done anything about, but we have seen similar situations come up where a "fire sale" event happened and no one was prepared to take immediate action to save the item. Or, situations where availability only became known here at the 11th hour, too late for most cash-strapped organizations to react. Of course, we've also seen situations where an item was widely advertised for months or even years and then we all bemoan the scrapping because no one stepped up, or could afford to step up, to save it.

I can only hope that someone saw value in these cars and made the purchase and can move them to a different location for storage and repair. I sure as heck would have if I could have!

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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am
Posts: 86
i don't think the cars will be scrapped because they're in such good condition. The last time i went on an excursion on mainline was 2006 for NRHS. If the damage is minor then it makes no sense to scrap them. If it's just the trucks that are damaged then i guess they should replace them with more modern trucks to eliminate these issues. The W&LE should gain ownership of the W&LE car and add it the their consist. The ORHS can be a little re leaved to have three less coaches. I hate to say that prewar cars doesn't belong on the mainline anymore unless the people would pay hundreds of thousands to keep them mainline worthy and i guess ORHS can't afford it. As long as the equipment are in excellent shape then there's not much sense to scrap them but i can be wrong but I hope I'm right


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:53 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 421
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
I would say bought for certain, at least that's what one of the principals in the deal says. Supposedly coming to the southeast, and I would speculate to someone who would appreciate the SAL/ACL heritage.

The non-standard truck comment, I'll stand by, but that's relative. The tread brake conversion that ACL/SAL/SCL did is unique to their pre-war cars from what I've seen. Granted there was variation in post war truck designs, but most of those I can lay hands on a spare frame or truck or equalizer if I need to. Not so sure about the pre-war trucks any more. Certainly a higher maintenance truck design -- twice as many equalizers, relatively odd pedestal liners, etc. If you have the parts support, run 'em.

Lets hope what I was told pans out. Now, where is that list of organizations that could pull this off....

ETA


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:15 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
As posted on Trainorders, 2 of the sold cars were spotted on flatbeds westbound on I-70 in Ohio (west of Columbus) yesterday. Based on the info in the spotter's post, these would be the #103 and #106. By the way, does anybody know who purchased these 3 cars, or if any of the other 3 cars involved in the derailment have returned to service? Thanks in advance! Trainorders thread here: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3855190

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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
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"RPCX #3125 [b]Paul Revere[/b] (Budd, Lot #9628-110, 1951, [i]Congressional[/i]) built as PRR Class PP85 29 seat parlor-1DR #7141 [b]Paul Revere[/b], galley space later added by PC, sold in 1971 to Amtrak #3641 reconfigured in 1976 to 46 seat buffet lounge #3327 numbered from November 1976 to May 1977 as #8367 converted in 1981 to HEP lounge #3125 retired and sold in 1995 to private ownership and used on California Western until washouts in 1998, stranded in Willits, sold in 2006 to Glenn Bowman and moved to Ohio as RPCX #3125."

Sold 1995 at Amtrak auction to Marty Mechum (sp?). Sold to North Coast Rail Authority, owners of former NWP trackage in CA. Car never used on CA Western, but used on excursions on former NWP. Sold at auction by NCRA to Jon Clark and Francis Wong. Sold to Glenn Bowman - trucked to live rail Sacramento, CA area and shipped in freight train service to Ohio.


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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Thanks, Topfuel, for the info on the Paul Revere!

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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:44 pm 

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 7:42 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Newark, Delaware
Paul Revere was on the NS Steam Specials this summer.

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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:02 pm 
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Thanks, Tom, for the info and photo! I overlooked the operating status of the Revere when I posted the inquiry on Wednesday.

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 Post subject: Re: Private Car Consist Derailment in Bellevue, Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1001
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Unless it left on it's own, Paul Revere is on the CVSR, having come in with NKP 765 for "Steam in the Valley", which ends tomorrow. I don't think it's being used on either the steam train consist or the regular scenic trains, at least not the consists I saw the first weekend of steam trips. Former Amtrak Heritage lounge #3126 is owned by the CVSR, as Cuyahoga Inn.

The #3100's were good food service cars on Amtrak. I don't believe either 3125 or 3126 were used for the service (I think they were in Florida service), but 3 of them (I remember #3124 - the Betsy Ross I believe - for sure) were made into "LePub" lounge cars for the Montrealer in the late '80's, and equipped with extra lockable storage and an electric piano in the lounge end. For a year or so they hired performers to play and sing in the evenings to and from Montreal as a service enhancement.

The serving layout of the cars was designed for a combination of cold food self-service, and hot food counter/sit-down service, with an array of glass refrigerated display cases at the beginning of the serving line, and several steam-table basins at the end, with a lockable galley with microwaves, convection ovens, cold and dry storage and airline-style coffee makers. The serving line also featured a huge two-part coffee maker passengers could serve themselves coffee from (possibly not the best idea on a moving train). The dining table nearest the food service area folded up to access a supply access hatch at floor level. Another hatch was directly across from the door to the galley area. I thought it was a well-thought out floor plan for a combination dining/lounge car doing the kind of food service Amtrak did in that era. Others may differ.


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