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 Post subject: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:26 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5814
The recent announcement of the Tom E. Dailey Foundation grants included one for the Toy Train Depot in Alomogordo, New Mexico. I was surprised that the $4K award was for their Chicago & Eastern Illinois caboose as not much equipment from that railroad has been formally preserved. I know of a C&EI wood transfer caboose, with a tiny bay window, on display at the old depot in Westville, Illinois. A few ex-C&EI steel cupola cabooses that went into the Missouri Pacific may have been saved, but the MoPac rebuilt them, drastically altering their appearance from when they worked on the C&EI. I did find a photo of the caboose on the internet and it appears that it may be one of the small 1947 steel center cupola cabooses. Here is a photo on one as painted and lettered for service on the C&EI:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2887233

These six AC&F built cabooses carried numbers beginning with number 1. If this IS in reality a C&EI caboose, it is amazing that it still survives, and way out in New Mexico no less! Can anyone confirm that this is in reality a C&EI caboose, and if so, the cabooses number?

Thanks.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:30 pm
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From what I've been able to gather, it was at the McDonalds in Alamogordo, NM before going to Toy Train depot, it sounds like it was once Mopac. I haven't seen any photos of the caboose yet.

Ryan


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Ryan -

I'm not sure where Alamogordo is located in New Mexico, but perhaps a reader of RyPN who is in the area, might at least check out the caboose trucks (if they are still the original leaf spring type) and see if they have C&EI cast in the truck frames. If so, that would be a pretty good indication that it is a genuine C&EI caboose. BTW, I tried to check the C&EI Historical Society on the web to see if they might have a list of surviving equipment from the railroad, but no luck there.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Looks like a C&EI caboose.


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:25 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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David -

It sure does! Unfortunately, also could be from some other railroad. Looking at the trucks probably would tell for sure, and they look like they are probably the original leaf spring, friction bearing trucks. The C&EI number might still be on it somewhere too, but that might take some really serious searching. I'd settle for the C&EI letters on the trucks. Thanks for posting the photo. Caboose looks in good shape. Must by that dry New Mexico air!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:26 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am
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Location: UT
Although nearly 15 years old (copyright 2000), Roger Kirkpatrick's Captive Cabeese in America lists three in Alamogordo, NM. The first is at the McDonald's and noted to be Santa Fe in origin (listed as ATSF?). The second is listed as being C&EI in origin, at the time of publication was in MP livery and serving as a "Scrap Metal Company Office". The third caboose was located at the junction of US 54, 70, and 82 and listed as SP? Mr. Kirkpatrick seems to use the "?" more to indicate that the number is not known instead of questioning the caboose's origin.


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
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Les Beckman

Alamagordo NM is a community in south central New Mexico Where US 54 and US 70 intersect. The community was formed by the El Paso & Northeastern and was home to the system shops util the EP&SW opened the shops in El Paso. The Cloudcroft branch intersected the mainline north of town and there was also a saw mill in Alamogordo. Today Holliman Air Force base and White Sands Missle range are dominate employeers. It also provides access to White Sands National Mounument.
Robby Peartree


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Robby -

Thanks for the interesting information. I noticed the building in the background behind the caboose. They call themselves the Toy Train Depot. The structure appears to have an operators bay. Might this then be the old EP&NE (EP&SW) depot from Alamogordo?

"Doc" Lewis -

There is a McDonald's emblem on the caboose in David Wilkins submitted photo. Roger Kirkpatrick listed an ATSF caboose as being at McDonalds but this is no Santa Fe caboose like I have ever seen, so my guess is that it is not THAT caboose. Obviously, McDonald's must have somehow had a hand in the caboose ending up at the Toy Train Depot. Did they purchase, or perhaps pay for the move of, the "Scrap Metal Company Office" caboose? The fact that the Scrap Metal Office caboose is listed as being in MP livery, offers some credence that the caboose was ex-C&EI. However, the MoPac had some original Magor (and built some Magor copies), that were very similar to the caboose in the Wilkins photos. Did Roger list a MP number, or C&EI number, by any chance in that 2000 report of his?

Thanks gentlemen, for all the additional info!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:22 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
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If memory serves me the building is modern construction

Robby Peartree


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:15 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Robby -

I did a check of the RAILROAD STATION HISTORICAL SOCIETY website, and they list this structure as a combination depot originally built for the EP&NE in 1899. The depot came from a place called Corona and was originally at Torrance. I'm assuming that these other two locations were also in New Mexico, although the RRSHS listing does not explicitly say that. Anyway, it apparently is a genuine railroad depot. Now, all we have to find out is if the caboose is in reality C&EI!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am
Posts: 321
Location: UT
Quote:
Did Roger list a MP number, or C&EI number, by any chance in that 2000 report of his?


Les:

In columns Mr. Kirkpatrick lists State, City, Caboose#, and "Location and Additional Information".

The line for the McDonald's caboose reads:
NM Alamogordo ATSF? McDonald's Restaurant

The line for the C&EI reads:
NM Alamogordo C&EI as MP, steel, Scrap Metal Company Office

The third one in the area states:
NM Alamogordo SP? at junction of US 54, 70, & 82

As an interesting side note C&EI cabooses are also listed in Las Cruces, NM (again no number, "no markings, steel, cupola, McDonald's Restaurant, Lohman at I-25 from Anthony"

and at Portales, NM (no number, "no markings, business, LOCATION?"

In fact at the end of the tome is a "CROSS REFERENCE OF NUMBERED CABOOSES". The only C&EI caboose in that list is C&EI 507 located in Cayuga, IN

Is it possible that the Alamogordo McDonald's has the ATSF? and the Toy Train Depot Caboose was originally at Las Cruces? As of September 2011 the caboose was still in Las Cruces

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.312884,-106.750053,3a,75y,252.62h,82.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1stWTn73-vQVBvFFO1AbFDiA!2e0!6m1!1e1

a look at google maps street view of the Alamogordo McDonalds shows no caboose on the property...unless being true "preservationists" they have it inside under cover???

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.888204,-105.960302,3a,75y,276.58h,84.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s0zSqEpF7NQgHQTUw1Q-KJA!2e0!6m1!1e1

Could it be possible that in Mr. Kirkpatrick's notes/sources switched the info on the scrapyard and McDonald's cabooses??

...and the mystery continues

sc 'doc' lewis


Last edited by sc 'doc' lewis on Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:50 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am
Posts: 321
Location: UT
Then again, Wikipedia knows everything!

Quote:
In January 2007 the Alamogordo McDonald's donated their Ronald's Railroad, full-sized, standard-gauge caboose to the museum. The caboose is now in a high-visibility location on US-54/70, alerting potential visitors to the museum's location.

The Toy Train Depot's building

The building that houses the museum began its life in 1898 as a working train depot in Torrance, New Mexico at the junction of the New Mexico Central Railroad and the El Paso and Northeastern Railroad. Later, the building was moved to Corona, New Mexico, where it remained for 75 years, serving the Rock Island and Southern Pacific railroads. The building retains its original stamped tin ceiling tiles as well its dispatcher's bay window.


It's not C&EI, nor ATSF? It's "RONALD"S RAILROAD"...good grief, I'm going to bed!!

sc 'doc' lewis


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:55 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5814
'Doc' -

My goodness; mystery is right! Thanks for doing all this digging. "Ronald's Railroad"? I love it! Could there really have been C&EI cupola cabooses there at the McDonalds restaurants in Alamogordo, Las Cruces and Portoles, New Mexico? Since owners of McDonalds franchises often own more than one, perhaps the owner of these 3 restaurants is one and the same person, and he is a C&EI fan!!!!!! Can there be any other explanation for 3 ex-C&EI cabooses ending up so far from home? As you say; mysteries, mysteries! That is, of course, if Roger's listing was accurate.

One other point. You mentioned above of C&EI caboose #507 in Cayuga, Indiana. The wife and I took a drive years ago to Cayuga, looking for this caboose. We drove around the town and found nothing. I stopped at a local food store and just happened to ask one of the shoppers about a caboose supposedly located there. She told me that, yes it had been, but thought that it was moved to Westville, Illinois. I didn't hold out much hope that what she told me was accurate, but what the heck, we drove over to Westville where we found the caboose next to the towns restored C&EI depot!

Thanks again for the info. Fascinating stuff.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5814
Well, I did a bit of "nosing around" on the internet this morning, and found out this:

1. There is a railroad museum in the old 1910 Santa Fe depot in Las Cruces, New Mexico. The museum acquired a Ft. Worth & Denver offset cupola wood caboose which they have on display. Perhaps the center cupola steel caboose is still at the McDonalds in Las Cruces.

2. As for Portales, this is a bit frustrating. I found a reference to a "Little Red Caboose" day care center there. Also a reference to a "Rainbow Caboose" day car center. But, no pictures! I don't know if these two places are one and the same, perhaps with a later painting of the caboose. And I am assuming here that there IS a caboose located there because of the name of the business. Is it though, the caboose from the McDonalds? As I said....frustrating.

3. I also wonder if there might be a second caboose located in Alamogordo. In 'Doc' Lewis's report above, he states that the Wikipedia entry says that the caboose from McDonald's is at the 54/70 intersection. The Toy Train Depot Museum is on U.S. 54, but not at the intersection of those two highways. Is this perhaps one of those cabooses that is acting as a "highway billboard"? Perhaps that is the ex-Santa Fe caboose reported as such by Roger Kirkpatrick as being at the Alamogordo McDonalds, and the center cupola (perhaps C&EI) caboose came from the scrap metal yard office, or from another McDonald's location. Mysteries for sure!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&EI caboose preserved?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am
Posts: 321
Location: UT
les:

In the photo of the caboose in David Wilkins post, the curb in the photo is North White Sands Blvd. and is also US70 and US54. The caboose in the photo is the 'billboard' on US70/54 (not intersection of).

Think of turning maybe 45 degrees to your left (David's photo) and then walking 1.9 miles south on White Sands Boulevard, then turn 90 degrees to your right and you are looking at the Alamogordo McDonald's (they didn't even have to move it across the street/hiway...just less than 2 miles up the same side of the road).

My thinking is that Mr. Kirkpatrick's information on McDonald's vs. Scrap Metal Office got switched.

Regarding Portales..."The Little Red Caboose Child Care Center" has a minimal facebook page that lists their address as 1900 South I Avenue which is the current location of Rascal Ranch Child Care Center. If you look at the google map link below, the outline of the building strongly resembles a train station from above. Just left of the building appears to be a concrete pad with play equipment on it. Based on the map scaling this pad is about 64 feet long by less than 12 feet wide...certainly could have been the location of the caboose in question...ah, but where did it go??? If this is where it was.

Google map link:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/child+care+center+portales+NM/@34.1694226,-103.3442327,111m/data=!3m1!1e3

BINGO!!

Larry Platt in his album "Cabooses in New Mexico" (linked below) shows the Scrap Metal Company office caboose and the McDonald's caboose (with a note that it was moved to Toy Train Depot)...and then (wait for it......) in Portales (scroll halfway down the page) is a picture of the 'Rainbow Caboose Child Care Center' caboose.

RR Picture Archive link:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=22140

This has been fun!

sc 'doc' lewis

P.S. The Las Cruces McDonald's caboose is also on Larry Platt's album page so all three
C&EI/MP accounted for in New Mexico (but per Les' original posting not confirmed C&EI).


Last edited by sc 'doc' lewis on Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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