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 Post subject: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:45 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 9
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Last edited by simulatortrain on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:59 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Missoula MT
A few practical considerations before things move too far along.

What group do you represent? Where can I send money? or find out more about you so others can send money?. Are you a non-profit? Your name looks new to me on this list, so let everybody know who you are, where you've been, and where you want to go. They don't bite.

Have you been in contact with the people who have worked on this engine previously? I might also refer you to the archives. This engine was discussed fairly recently and operating prospects (from a legal perspective) appeared challenging.

Don't sandblast, find some other paint removal mechanism that won't load every open bearing on the engine with grit. Also read the "Care and Feeding of a Park Locomotive" section on the Association of Railway Museums' website (presuming the article is still there).

Find a good boiler repair crew/person/contractor and get them on retainer. Also start a relationship with your friendly FRA inspector. Knowing the rules beforehand will save you a lot of grief later.

Others will give you better and more concise suggestions later.

Have fun, be safe, and do good work. Look forward to seeing great things to come.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:30 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2355
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Someone who just signs up comes along and his first post is how they are going to restore the 202 and run her to Winchester burning french fry oil. I think the moderators need to have a look.

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Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:13 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3033
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Check with the Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum, and ask for Bob Tracey, or check with him at his home in Inwood, W.Va. He lives only a few miles from me in the same town. If there are any questions, he may be able to answer them.

This work has been ongoing, that I can say, living only about 30 miles away.


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 Post subject: ADMIN: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:50 am
Posts: 489
Location: Columbia, MD
tomgears wrote:
Someone who just signs up comes along and his first post is how they are going to restore the 202 and run her to Winchester burning french fry oil. I think the moderators need to have a look.


I've got my eye on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:15 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:50 pm
Posts: 148
Location: MD
Wo wo wo Adam? Is that you? The main problem is having a place to run her! W&W has never committed to anything of a sort, it's only an idea right now. Calm down buddy, we'll be having a meeting before the beginning of this season to discuss any pending restoration. It's true she's in pretty good shape, but it's gonna take a lot more than flues and a paint job to ever get her running again! Don't worry, when the time is right, we will start a restoration campaign in earnest. Nothing has changed in status since the last post I made in the previous 202 thread.

-Alex Haines


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 9
Hey Alex,
I thought W&W did say they would. I searched for a thread and couldn't find one so I made one. I know there's more that needs done, I listed what I could think of at the time. I just posted what I was told (unless it was something Mike told me) so some people must not have known completely what they were talking about. Since you're here and you know a bunch about this, I'll keep my mouth shut.

That's what I told Aaron too, that we need an actual group. Nothing's ever going to get done if we don't get this set up officially. Let me know when the meeting is.


Last edited by simulatortrain on Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 9
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Last edited by simulatortrain on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 9
J3a-614 wrote:
Check with the Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum, and ask for Bob Tracey, or check with him at his home in Inwood, W.Va. He lives only a few miles from me in the same town. If there are any questions, he may be able to answer them.

This work has been ongoing, that I can say, living only about 30 miles away.


I'm a member, and I know Bob. He's the one I referred to with the 2101.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2355
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
When some someone new signs up here and starts posting wild tales about running a steam engine on french-fry oil many regulars are very wary. We have someone here with a chronic multiple personality internet disorder and it's not a stretch that he has started getting some help with grammar and spelling. Why don't you introduce yourself, this will help people to take you seriously.

The 202 has already been talked to death here and on other boards. Here is a story on her from 2008. I don't think much has changed since then.

http://www.herald-mail.com/?cmd=display ... ormat=html

Based on the quotes in the story I would not hold my breath for the Winchester and Western to ever allow steam excursions. Don't get me wrong, most everyone here would enjoy seeing a restored 202 out on the rails.

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Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 9
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Last edited by simulatortrain on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
You'll need to incorporate as a public charity to attract the money and help you need. Donors need donations to be tax deductible, and volunteers need a liability shield. Here's a book to help you organize it yourself, though there are others.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1413310265?ta ... ZMAJKT241&

I know it's intimidating. Like what - overhauling a steam engine isn't? :)

For a primer on the kinds of nonprofit, read
http://savesmrs.blogspot.com/2010/01/three-sectors.html
http://savesmrs.blogspot.com/2010/01/ki ... rofit.html

You will probably want a 501(c)(3), public-benefit, membership nonprofit, with board.

Pay special attention to your Bylaws. Include (by reference) a parliamentary authority like (but not necessarily) Robert's Rules of Order. Look at the best and worst of other people's bylaws from the perspective of someone trying to cause you legal mischief or trying to take control. The Sierra Club has an excellent bylaws (for them).


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:24 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
tomgears wrote:
When some someone new signs up here and starts posting wild tales about running a steam engine on french-fry oil many regulars are very wary.

Remember it is very hard for a "good, new person" to sign up for this forum, because the forum (like all phpBB forums) is under constant attack by script kiddies trying to create accounts for spamming. So if one makes it in, cut them a break.

As for the french fry oil - at least they've done something to assure a fuel source in uncertain times. What do you plan to burn in your steamer 10 years hence, and how do you plan to arrange price protection on that?

Quote:
We have someone here with a chronic multiple personality internet disorder and it's not a stretch that he has started getting some help with grammar and spelling.

Sometimes, that is necessary. I know of one user-generated encyclopedia where posting as your real self will only bring you harassment.
Quote:
Based on the quotes in the story I would not hold my breath for the Winchester and Western to ever allow steam excursions.

Actually get it steaming, and watch the answer change :) Nothing succeeds like success :)


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:15 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8357
Location: Baltimore, MD
robertmacdowell wrote:
Quote:
Based on the quotes in the story I would not hold my breath for the Winchester and Western to ever allow steam excursions.

Actually get it steaming, and watch the answer change :) Nothing succeeds like success :)


Yeah, that sure worked for B&LE 643. And PRR 1361. And Reading 2100. And others......


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202 Restoration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:25 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
robertmacdowell wrote:
tomgears wrote:
When some someone new signs up here and starts posting wild tales about running a steam engine on french-fry oil many regulars are very wary.

Remember it is very hard for a "good, new person" to sign up for this forum, because the forum (like all phpBB forums) is under constant attack by script kiddies trying to create accounts for spamming. So if one makes it in, cut them a break.


Vbulletin now has a program that does a wonderful job in stopping spammers. It works on a system where you report spammers, and it logs their IPs and other information. That info is put into a database, and shared with everyone else using the program, the same type of system that some e-mail anti-spam programs use. Now that it's in widespread use, it's working very well. Let's see how many spamming attempts it has stopped over at RailroadForums. Looks like about 200 or so... yesterday alone.

I realize this isn't a Vbulletin forum. But I also suspect PHPbb has something along those lines, either as an official plugin or a third party add-on.

Quote:
As for the french fry oil - at least they've done something to assure a fuel source in uncertain times. What do you plan to burn in your steamer 10 years hence, and how do you plan to arrange price protection on that?


I'd suggest adopting the Grand Canyon Railway's technique and doing a bit of "spin". Stop talking about French Fry Oil, which makes it sound like you've converted your VW bug to run off grease from the local McD's Burger Shack.

Instead, discuss how this venture will utilize Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO), providing both a clean burning fuel, and also using an environmentally sustainable renewable resource.

What's the difference? Technically nothing, it's still french fry oil, but one sounds like a science fair project while the other one sounds like an environmentally friendly corporation "going green". Guess which one sells better?


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