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 Post subject: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consultant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 3
The Town of Wickenburg, Arizona has a BNSF 761 train that’s in need of cosmetic restoration assistance. We are not certain of what parts are missing and may need to be replaced, as well as what the process is for repairing the exterior of the train. We are hoping to begin with an experienced team or person who can identify estimated costs of parts, paint, etc. In addition, if said team/person could generate a step-by-step plan for carrying out the repairs.

The ideal organization/team would be in close proximity of Arizona but we will consider an expert located in other regions if costs can be kept minimal.

If you are interested or able to recommend a specialist who may be interested in this project, please email me their name, email and phone number. I can be reached at jchildress@wickenburgaz.org.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 350
The Locomotive you are asking about is the ex-Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway No. 761. A 1900 Baldwin 2-8-0.

Using these terms will help people to know what you are talking about.

Good luck. T7


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
A neat little loco plus a caboose. I like the Saguaro next to the exhibit.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopi ... x?id=61929


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3944
Location: Maine
Before anything is done to improve the locomotive, be certain is is secured, under lights, and regularly patrolled. It's obvious the locomotive has been stripped by vandals at least once. Without upgrading security, you shouldn't do anything but lubricate it and paint when the weather allows.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Richard Glueck wrote:
Before anything is done to improve the locomotive, be certain is is secured, under lights, and regularly patrolled. It's obvious the locomotive has been stripped by vandals at least once. Without upgrading security, you shouldn't do anything but lubricate it and paint when the weather allows.

Not "obvious" at all. The bell, step-top Santa Fe whistle, and builder's plates (or at least replicas) are all present on the loco. Granted, we don't have a look inside the cab, but that's in part because of a stout fence around the loco! The local chamber of commerce visitors center is next to the loco in the former Santa Fe depot, and rural Arizona is not exactly a hotbed of vandalism...... heck, there were people waving at the Google Street View cameras as it went by!

I've sent the party making the inquiry a somewhat detailed e-mail listing a number of options, potential approaches, and sources for information closer to him, and asking for more details about the proposed restoration.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3944
Location: Maine
aI drove over to Wickenburg this afternoon and inspected the locomotive, then spoke to Mrs. Brooks, executive Director of the C of C of Wickenburg. The 761 is attached to the old Santa Fe station, now used as the C of C office and guest center, and kept in remarkable, condition.

As you can see in my photos, the whistle, bell, and plates are still on the locomotive. The glass or the lamps, marks, and cab has all been smashed out by vandals. The locomotive was once store in a park across town, then moved to the station site using a gift from a resident. It is surrounded by an iron fence which stopped most of the wanton damage until the caboose was placed behind it. Now the caboose (in terrific condition btw) serves as a launch platform for thieves and vandals to leap to the locomotive. Because of this, the cab has been torn up, the gauges either stolen or smashed beyond use, and copper pipes torn out. Mrs. Brooks says there have been increasing instances of thieves doing destruction to the locomotive in recent years, and they want to stop it to keep the locomotive presentable*.

I suggested having contractor who works with steam locomotives abate the asbestos, although at this time, the jacketing is sealed and appears to sport no leaks. I reminded her that contractors without locomotive experience may cut pipes and hardware to make their job easier. I reminded her the jacketing should be reapplied after abatement. I suggested lubrication of the locomotive, all moving parts, using acetone and atf mix. The locomotive needs to be scraped and painted, but that the least of it. Heat of the day has blistered the paint on the loco as it stands today. There is considerable dry rot to all wooden fixtures, and they need refabricating and replacement. The wood will likely dry out again, so aluminum copies might be an answer for Wickenburg. Glass replacement is probably not a good idea, as the vandals made that their first series of targets. Plexiglass with fog or change shape under the intense sunlight.

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Weathering has taken its toll, but theft and vandalism has moved the town to do something before 761 falls into deeper trouble. They're to be commended.


*#4 must get tired always being "right".

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:39 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5324
Dick -

Thanks for posting the great photos of 761. The caboose doesn't look AT&SF to me, but I'm not an expert. Perhaps Southern Pacific? I can't quite read the railroad initials cast into the truck frames. Almost looks like it says PM RR. Can that be right? Perhaps someone can tell us for sure, what railroad. BTW, a fence around the caboose might have been a good idea. Wonder why they didn't extend the one around the Consolidation?


Les


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:36 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am
Posts: 320
Location: UT
Some preliminary sleuthing indicates the caboose is SP604 (wood, cupola, built 1929, Class C-30-3). From a website citing the history of the Wickenburg pairing

Quote:
Wickenburg, Arizona is possibly the west’s most western town. Standing proudly and leading the way in front of the old Santa Fe depot (now the Wickenburg Chamber of Commerce) on Frontier Street sits old #761, a 2-8-0 Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway Steam Locomotive which pounded the rails between Chicago and the west.... #761 was from Boulder City, Nevada and moved from Wickenburg’s Stone Park in 2003 to present location. Also on display with #761 is Southern Pacific’s wood #604 cupola, Class C-30-3 caboose, which was built in 1929. When active, this caboose saw service between Montana and California & all points in between. This Wickenburg drover caboose was purchased and restored by the Wellik Foundation.


the website: (bottom of page)

http://www.denverrails.com/db/attrctpix.cfm?attr_id=1735&row=6

sc 'doc' lewis


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:57 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 252
Location: Cambridgeshire UK
Hi Guys, I don't want to sound like I'm repeating the same thing (or banging the same drum), but I feel this is important. My suggestion is that once you get the ok to proceed, before you do any big and serious restoration work, you might want to invest in a secure building / engine house. Also have enough track to roll the locomotive in and out when time, restoration and weather permit. Could be built in the Santa Fe style similar to the Wickenburg station. As a long term investment, it will pay off ten fold. Half the restoration battle is with the elements, and a building will give the locomotive good protection from mother nature, along with protection from the various metal hunter & collectors and vandals. Thanks for letting me put my foot in my mouth once again - Dave Notarius, Far away in Cambridgeshire UK

Ps, Off topic, but is the really good chilli place by the bus station in Wickenburg still there?


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:03 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8864
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
A few additional thoughts:

Assuming that this loco isn't going to go into an indoor museum anytime soon, and it will continue with fence protection, the prudent measure might be to separate the caboose and locomotive by a big enough gap to prevent or discourage the jumping. I'm a little dubious about extending the fence around the caboose as well--when you seal it off from the public too much, you reduce interest and enthusiasm. (What do you remember, the vintage Lionel or Ives trains you weren't allowed to touch, or the ones you could play with?)

Arizonans know better than most of us the compromises of things being outside in the desert sun. Just because it's flat black and not bright and shiny doesn't mean it's abandoned or neglected. EVERYTHING in central Arizona seems to bear that sun-bleached patina, and for good reason. The rust has to be corrected, and various other cosmetic issues addressed, but if I saw a shiny steam locomotive in central Arizona I would do a double take--in part because it doesn't fit, and in part because it won't stay that way long.

Wood replacement: No, not aluminum. "Plastic wood." They have types made to endure desert heat and sunshine now. There's also "plastic glass" for Southwest use that is resistant to UV fading, but any vandal that is determined enough can crack plastic, as we all know too well.

The basic prep work--scraping, sanding, grinding, needle-gunning, primering, even sandblasting--can probably be done by amateur volunteers or community service folks. I recommended that calling in an auto-body shop or professional painters experienced in catalyst paint work would yield the best long-term results once they're down to actual painting. I also referred them to the Santa Fe Railway Modeling and Technical Society for additional advice re: paint diagrams, fonts, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:16 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 3
Hi,

Thanks everyone for the input. A lot of good and detail information has been provided and I will relay the ideas and recommendations to the Town Manager and Council.

Also, thank you for posting the awesome photos of the 761.

~Jillian


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:17 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am
Posts: 320
Location: UT
Good point above, Sandy...in fact another website indicates that there are a couple of 'snowbirds' that give tours of the "drover caboose" between October 15th and May 15th.

And a minor addendum. Captive Cabeese in America lists SP 604 at the Nevada Railroad Museum in Boulder City, NV...so were both the engine and the caboose de-accessed by the museum?

sc 'doc' lewis


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 372
Location: Northern California
I would suggest you use a two step process. First get a consultant to survey your artifacts and work with you to identify what you want done and how much you want to spend. That consultant would then write a specification defining the project. Then use that specification to solicit proposals from experienced contractors. Both consultants and contractors who specializes in restoration of railway equipment are out there. Putting this information on this site and calls to a few of the larger museums like Orange Empire, Nevada State Railroad Museum in Carson City or California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento will get you the names of people who do this type of work.

You may also want to join the Association of Tourist Railroads and Railroad Museums, so you get there publication. It has lots of information about on going restoration projects and who is doing them.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3944
Location: Maine
The locomotive enjoys no public budget at this time, but I think we've all offered some good ideas for Wickenburg, and most can be accomplished with minimum cost. Capping the fence with razor wire, at least between the caboose and tender might avert the "jumpers". Of course, crowning the fence all around the locomotive would send a negative message to the public, and I doubt the town wants that. The caboose trucks do read PM Ry., and that caught my eyes as well.

Wickenburg is a welcoming, redesigned, positive, little western town. There are period human sculptures and bronze art pieces around town, modern stores for visitors, restaurants, and streets. Definitely a place to bring your wife while you scope out the locomotive.

The caboose is used during the cooler months for public events.

One slightly critical statement, they need to paint both sides of the display equipment, regularly, and with the assistance of locomotive savvy people.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 793
Find a short flat car to put between the tender and the caboose.


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