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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5404
Lincoln Penn wrote:
Find a short flat car to put between the tender and the caboose.


Lincoln -

Like that idea!


Les


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
Perhaps Arizona Railway Museum (Chandler, AZ) could provide free consultation and volunteer labor.
http://www.azrymuseum.org/


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:40 am
Posts: 320
Location: UT
Lincoln & Les:

I don't know that a flat car between the caboose and engine would work. I once saw in a movie (or was it fifty or a hundred times?) where the 'bad guys' jump from the roof of one car to the flat and still got to the engine cab. Now a flat car with a full load of uncoiled razor wire might do the trick...until they (read the 'bad guys') took the razor wire for scrapping!

sc 'doc' lewis


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 794
sc 'doc' lewis wrote:
Lincoln & Les:

I don't know that a flat car between the caboose and engine would work. I once saw in a movie (or was it fifty or a hundred times?) where the 'bad guys' jump from the roof of one car to the flat and still got to the engine cab. Now a flat car with a full load of uncoiled razor wire might do the trick...until they (read the 'bad guys') took the razor wire for scrapping!

sc 'doc' lewis



OK, then. Get a short flat car, remove the deck, and wrap the center sill with razor wire.

Or a piece of pipe running the length of the center sill about 3 feet above it. An effective nut cracker for those who still want to try the jump.

Or put some low sides on the flatcar and plant cactus. BIG cactus.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
:/
All the tongue-in-cheek commentary above is not helping the original poster with her problem.

To roll the caboose 8' (or whatever) away from the fence, I'm sure the Arizona Ry Museum can offer pointers, if not do it themselves as a public service.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 794
rock island lines wrote:
:/
All the tongue-in-cheek commentary above is not helping the original poster with her problem.

To roll the caboose 8' (or whatever) away from the fence, I'm sure the Arizona Ry Museum can offer pointers, if not do it themselves as a public service.


We are being proactive. For my part, it's NOT tongue in cheek. If they move the caboose and leave a gap, that will look silly. Putting a 30' or 35' flat car in there will make it look like a train. Duh.

And if you don't do SOMETHING, you'll have the same issue over again.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
To Lincoln Penn:

A flat car wrapped with razor wire? Come on.

Besides, do you think the city wants to add another car to the display? Doubtful.

Nobody will be bothered by a gap between the loco and the caboose. No need to add the insult, "duh", to your post.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 790
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Very simple solution-replace the little fence with a BIG fence. Old Pueblo Trolley is the caretaker for the Southern Pacific No. 1673 at Tucson. It was moved from Himmel Park to the Southern Pacific depot and placed under a shed with a fence that is something like twelve feet tall. The area is lighted and highly visible as the waiting room is now a restaurant and shop. No access is permitted to the locomotive except on certain days when the Southern Arizona Transportation Museum is open.

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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 794
rock island lines wrote:
To Lincoln Penn:

A flat car wrapped with razor wire? Come on.

Besides, do you think the city wants to add another car to the display? Doubtful.

Nobody will be bothered by a gap between the loco and the caboose. No need to add the insult, "duh", to your post.


I said remove the deck of the flatcar. That leaves a bare center sill for jumpers to target, which is a lot harder to aim at. Tightly wrap the center sill with razor wire. It would
not be unsightly from the ground, but would be very effective against anyone thinking
about jumping the gap. Anything he lands on or touches is going to hurt him.

Or separate the caboose from the tender and put in a picture of a flat car.

The gap will bother anyone who knows better. Might as well leave the caboose coupled to the tender and separate the engine from the tender. Thus the duh.

The point is, there are practical ways to resolve this issue if you don't get all bound up.
First, replace all the "jewelry" (gauges, copper pipes, etc) with dummies or replicas. Nothing worth stealing will stop the thefts. Replace glass with plexiglass. If it gets broken, so what?

A taller fence might help a little, but it won't stop those who want in there badly enough.

Been there, done that. And have a little bit of a real-world handle on what works and what doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
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It's probably not a good idea to booby-trap equipment displays, no matter how tempting it is.

;-)

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 790
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Lincoln Penn wrote:


A taller fence might help a little, but it won't stop those who want in there badly enough.



Actually, a tall enough fence and reasonable security will stop the problem. Our fence exends up high enough that it cannot be climbed over. It is about twelve feet tall and flares out at the top with points. Of course, our locomotive is right in the middle of the city and we have a heavy police presence in that area.

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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:31 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:22 pm
Posts: 339
It's a difference in motivation.

Those desperate for work or fleeing violence will try to cross deserts with inadequate water, cram into unsafe vehicles or, yes, scale a tall fence topped with razor wire.

Copper thieves will scale fences and go into live substations to steal wire (and it doesn't work out well for a lot of them around here, nor does going into a closed coal mine in search of shooting cable; old mines accumulate methane, and it's a bad idea to light a smoke.)

Most glass-breaking vandals are opportunists, and lazy ones at that. If the fence is high enough to keep a half-decent throw from making good contact, most people will wander off and break something else.

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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:09 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 254
Location: Cambridgeshire UK
Getting back on topic, does the city of Wickenburg / or who ever will be in charge of the locomotive & display, have a long term master plan? If not, is there on in the works?


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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:52 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 790
Location: Tucson, Arizona
That I do not know. It could be that the responsibility is split by the City and C of C. When the 1673 was moved from Himmel Park in Tucson, I believe the agreement between the City of Tucson and the Southern Arizona Transportation Museum was that the City would permit the Museum to move the locomotive to the Southern Pacific depot and assist with protecting the locomotive from the elements, but that the Museum assumed security and maintenance responsibilities.

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 Post subject: Re: 761 in Wickenburg Arizona --Looking for an expert/consul
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
I believe it is the C of C, under direction of the Town Manager. The locomotive is an attraction and they are making a real effort to extend that mission. There is no room to add another piece of equipment to the display track, nor would adding more responsibility benefit 761. Extending the fence between the caboose deck and tender to a greater height might do the trick. In the interim, there are some good ideas for storing her as "retrievable" in the future. With only few exceptions of "ping pong" insults in this discussion, I think we've offered some good grass-roots advice.

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