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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5231
Location: southeastern USA
Of course we saved too much, and we also saved too little. Too much generic stuff, too little in planned purposeful collections. Too much to care for, too little of anything specifically meaningful enough to make enough people care enough to care for it.

I think we all did the best we could at the time, in a world without instant communication, scattered and not collected and available information, and an overwhelming mass of opportunity. We had stuff being given away or sold for pennies, an active and vibrant economy in which we led the world, and a generation of railway management that were railroaders, not financial people and MBAs, who were proud of their industry and lived through its greatest cycle. It seemed idiotic not to take what we were given and then some......

So we did. Act first, reflect later.......reality about actual life cycle comes along, economic and cultural perceptions change, and we're still trying to hold on to the emotionally driven ways of the past. We could truly save 30% of what we have....yet we won't give up 70% to do so. The joke is on us when 90% of it naturally disappears......

I'm impressed with what we're managing to pull off despite ourselves.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2050
IRM has a big long line of steam engines outside, 757 is no stranger, just check that line.
They are all rather ignored and rusty but there they are, and most likely no chance to be scrapped either. IRM still works at getting equipment under cover. We get emotional about a piece getting rusty, but we have to remember a good restoration will bring any piece back to life, even operational.


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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1790
Quote:
Act first, reflect later.......reality about actual life cycle comes along, economic and cultural perceptions change, and we're still trying to hold on to the emotionally driven ways of the past. We could truly save 30% of what we have....yet we won't give up 70% to do so. The joke is on us when 90% of it naturally disappears......

I'm impressed with what we're managing to pull off despite ourselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 600
From someone who remembers the 60's and 70's and how things came about, I must say Dave you nailed it pretty well. Hind sight is still 20/20 regardless of technology and it making us so much smarter.

So sad but true we are now often our own worst enemies at times when it comes to letting go of some of our artifacts both large and small or the emotionally driven dreams on what could be. Frankly I admire those who had the foresight to save what was saved. Things happened fast and you had to act fast. Yes maybe too much was saved, but the points Dave makes are so true to the times. Letting go does not happen easy for individuals or larger groups of people.

The challenge for many organizations {which many are volunteer types} is to cull or downsize the herd and keep your organization intact after the fall out. Many of my favorite pcs in the collection would be the first to go. Truth is perception and perception is truth. We are a difficult lot to work with. On the other hand never say never. Mid Continents wood car shop crew continues to prove me wrong and restores projects that I said should of been burned 30 years ago. I love it when they prove me wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Amherst, Oh
I don't know if too much was saved or if it was just too easy to save things before. For instance now you have pieces that are falling apart because people can't take care of them but if they're every put up for sale they're at an inflated price. Oh, your rusty passenger car is $50,000, landlocked, and needs to be moved within 3 hours or it's being scrapped? Sorry. The price and logistics of buying and moving equipment now seems to be through the roof.


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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5231
Location: southeastern USA
If you remember the sixties, John.....you missed them.

dave

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"Techies never minded eating bits and jots of their work. They were grit and grease inside and out and could turn a pile of junk into a magical kingdom."

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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5231
Location: southeastern USA
But seriously, folks, what we need to do is share and trade among ourselves so that we all get the best of what fits for us, and pass along what fits others' missions to them even if it is in an uneven exchange. In the long run, and over the total small universe of our concerns, it will all even out. If we could cooperatively solve the logistics problem, and make shipping less costly, that is what would do us the greatest good at present - provided we do the free trade thing first.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Kudos, Dave. I think there is plenty of equipment that might be reshuffled to regionally appropriate museums and restoration groups. The "You can't have it, this is mine!" attitude has been the demise of many well intentioned pieces of railroad equipment. How to move it may be the issue!

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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1790
Regarding trades and rationalization of collections, see also: Bill Wall; Lake Shore Electric Railway Museum;


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 Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts On NKP 757 Again
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 219
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Got to see NKP 757 after the 2014 TCA Convention.

Nickel Plate Road 757 (Museum Tour), 07-03-2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plp3sttZI5E

Enjoy! ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:17 am
Posts: 147
Location: New York
Sharing a nice portrait of the NKP 757 by Mitch Goldman. The last time it was moved for repositioning in 2010, the main rod had to be removed because it had seized.

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/522890/

-otto-

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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8299
Location: Baltimore, MD
Announced 30 minutes ago on the RR Museum of Pa.'s Facebook page:

Quote:
The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania has announced that it will be transferring ownership of its historic Nickel Plate Road steam locomotive No. 757, the Berkshire, to the Mad River & NKP Railroad Museum in Bellevue, Ohio. The Mad River & NKP Railroad Museum will be making its own arrangements for the eventual movement of the No. 757 to Ohio. Ownership of the locomotive will be transferred upon its removal from the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. “Responsible stewardship of historic artifacts often requires making difficult choices about what you keep, what you acquire and how you invest your limited resources,” says Museum director Patrick C. Morrison. “Saying goodbye to the Berkshire will be sad for us, having been on our roster for more than 50 years. However, the Mad River & NKP Railroad Museum has demonstrated their willingness to immediately restore No. 757, and we are very excited to see what they have in store for this important modern steam treasure. No one organization can save every historically significant object and, in most cases today, it is quite literally a race against time to save these pieces from the ravages of time and the elements.”


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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:40 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:17 am
Posts: 147
Location: New York
Congratulations to the Mad River & NKP Museum, I know they worked hard to make this transfer happen.

http://www.madrivermuseum.org/news.html

Quote:
The Mad River & NKP Railroad Museum (MR&NKP) is pleased to announce the creation of an agreement with the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania (RRMPA) that would allow Nickel Plate Road Steam Locomotive #757 to return to Bellevue, Ohio. Plans are now underway to relocate the locomotive from Strasburg, PA, to the museum site in Bellevue for static display.

We are very excited to be able to bring the 757 back to Bellevue. The absence of a mainline steam locomotive in our collection has been something we have wanted to correct for a long time. To have the chance to return the 757 to Bellevue is an incredible victory for our organization," said museum President Chris Beamer.

The locomotive is a Berkshire type (2-8-4 wheel arrangement), the staple design that was made famous by the Nickel Plate Road (NKP). It was built by the Lima Locomotive Works in 1944 and was last operated on June 15, 1958. As steam locomotives were retired on the Nickel Plate, several were saved by the railroad as monuments to the towns along the line and donated accordingly. 757 was saved for Bellevue, Ohio, Nickel Plate's largest classification terminal. Unfortunately, at that time, Bellevue did not have a railroad museum and the city was unable to provide and fund a display site. After being stored at Bellevue for several years, the railroad donated the locomotive to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in 1966.
757

Ten years after Bellevue lost its steam locomotive, the Mad River & NKP Railroad Museum was founded. Since then, the MR&NKP has grown to encompass 50 pieces of equipment, 10 acres of property, five buildings, countless artifacts, and a rail viewing platform. The MR&NKP is a non-profit 501(c)3 organization that is operated and maintained by volunteers with no government assistance. Admission to the museum, fund raising events, and donations are the museum's primary sources of income. The MR&NKP has the most extensive collection of NKP equipment and artifacts of any museum, however owning an actual NKP steam locomotive has eluded the museum since its inception.

In early 2017, the MR&NKP and the RRMPA entered into negotiations to bring 757 back home. Within the past few months, the RRMPA and the Pennsylvania Historical & Museum Commission has agreed that 757 does not have as strong a connection to Pennsylvania's railroading history as some of their other locomotives and railroad cars, which also require considerable attention. They have made the difficult decision to deaccession 757 from their collection, with the intention of transferring the locomotive to an organization that has a better connection to the locomotive's history and is willing and able to immediately restore it.
757

The MR&NKP will begin movement preparations as funds permit and will be granted ownership of the locomotive after its removal from the RRMPA site. "The people of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania have been great to work with on this project and toward the common goal of preserving our country's railroad heritage," Beamer added.

This is a rare opportunity and may not be available again. The MR&NKP estimates the relocation, restoration, and preparation of a special exhibit site will cost $250,000. The Mad River & NKP Railroad Museum needs your help to bring this iconic locomotive back home to Bellevue. Please visit www.bringback757.org for more information and/or to donate.


Official donation site: https://bringback757.org/

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Otto Vondrak, Trustee
Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum, Rochester, N.Y.


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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 1709
"While the Pennsylvania State Railroad Museum is certainly a first-class operation, chatting with the museum staff and visually observing the engines condition, myself and others have got the impression that NKP 757 seems to be considered an “outsider” when it comes to the museum’s focus and will never be put inside or much effort ever made to give it a cosmetic restoration on a level with other engines at the museum."

You realize that is intentional mishandling of property that the paid staff is supposed to handle for the benefit of the taxpayer based upon personal emotion, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Some thoughts on NKP 757
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:37 pm
Posts: 22
This may not come as very positive news but what many museum/operations need to do is to scrap probably half of what they own which is in poor shape so they concentrate on maintaining/operating the rest.

While it is admirable that we try to "save" every last piece of equipment the reality is that future low memberships won't have the ability or desire to rehab/maintain it. Personally, we have found this true in our small family. We have two sons and their small families who when offered used, but well maintained, furniture, household goods, tools,books,etc. are politely, refused. One family, does not want anything which is "old" and will buy, new what they want/need while the other are minimalists with a tiny home and don't want more than they can comfortably, used, store, etc.. This folks, may the future for many museums regardless of their nature, whether rail, war, farm, etc..

Regarding this subject most museums (excluding the large well, funded ones) would do well to:

1. If they don't own their own right of way attempt to purchase or "lock it up" legally, so they have ownership. If they do own their own track/facilities, budget for annual, bridge/crossing/tiel/rail/ballast/herbicide, renewal/maintainence. In addition only maintain/operate whattrackage is necessary and feasible regarding revenue producing runs and either mothball or lease for freight car storage the rest. When it comes down to ride length most passengers only want a short 45-60" run trip ride.

2. Select the best of their passenger equipment and budget for it's on-going maintainence, paint, air conditioning/heating, etc.. Get rid of the rest.

3. Select two diesel (electric if trolley/interurban) locomotives and budget for their continous, maintainence, spare parts, etc.. Display the rest.

4. If they have one small, to moderate, sized steam engine set aside funds to either rehab. it for service or cosmetically, restore it for display. If currently, operating, set aside revenue from each time it's run to save for the next 15 year, inspection/overhaul.

5. Select no more than 10-12 of the best restorable pieces of freight, MW (cranes, plows,) for restoration and photo freight operations. Scrap, donate the rest.

I think if most museum operations would adopt this type of "hard" thinking they would have a much brighter future.

Just some observations and probably not appreciated comments?

exprail


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