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 Post subject: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:43 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 509
Location: Canada
The fine folks at the John Street Roundhouse in Toronto have been working on restoring their 539 powered Alco switcher to operation, but have been unable to find anyone able to rebuild the fuel pump for this unit. Anyone know of a company that can do this?

A switcher type locomotive, CP Rail 7020 (class DS10-b, serial 72855) looks like she was "ridden hard and put away wet"!

The series 7010-7064 was constructed by the American Locomotive Company in partnership with General Electric at Schenectady, New York, in October, 1944. This was five years before Alco's Canadian affiliate, Montreal Locomotive Works (partnered with Canadian General Electric in Peterborough), built their first S-2 for Canadian Pacific. In the Alco-GE partnership, the locomotive builder constructed the mechanical portion of the unit's frame, cab, carbody, trucks or bogies - while the electrical systems , main generator, traction motors and control systems were provided by GE. This partnership continued from the 1930's into the middle 1950's, when General Electric began producing their own line of complete locomotives at their plant in Erie, Pennsylvania. Alco and MLW subsequently disappeared from the locomotive marketplace, leaving only General Motors and General Electric to the field.

The switcher has a specific function. That's why it's usually smaller, less powerful and slower than its mainline counterparts (like CNR 4803). Within a city or a railway yard, it is switchers which go to each industry and pull out freight cars as required until a complete train is made up. Then the road engines couple on for the long haul at higher sustained speeds (50 MPH and more) until they reach another yard. There another switcher takes over, breaking the train up into sections and delivering them locally as required.

7020 is a "war engine", acquired to meet the crushing demands of the World War II effort. In the late 1930's, diesel-electrics started to supplant steam locomotives in the switching function, primarily in urban areas. Steam switchers required two-person crews (an engineer and a fireman), had low availability (spending eight hours or more per day in servicing), and produced noxious, billowing clouds of coal or oil smoke unpopular with city dwellers. Even though diesel-electric switchers drew on the same limited sources of supplies used to construct tanks and warships, their overwhelming efficiency at a time of intense need led rationing authorities in Canada and the United States to permit their continued construction.

The S-2 was one of a family of Alco/MLW switchers produced from 1940 through the middle 1950's, when the motor and exterior changed. The S-2 was powered by a 539-type super charged six-cylinder inline four-cycle diesel producing 1000 horsepower. Weighing about120 tons, its electrical transmission permitted it a maximum safe speed of 60 MPH. Its trucks or bogies were designed by an engineer named Blunt, and are particularly agile when moving over rough inner-city industrial trackage or tight curvature.

The curvaceous exterior styling of the locomotive was a mild application of Art Deco principles by another Alco engineer, Ray Patten. CPR found the S-2 to be too large a locomotive for its needs and most later switcher purchases were of S-3's, a similar locomotive lighter in frame weight and producing 660 horsepower from an engine not equipped with a turbo supercharger.

CPR 7020 was assigned to Toronto from delivery (Parkdale Yard). It thus forms an integral part of the story of dieselization, of Canadian railways at war, and of Toronto's railway story.

The locomotive was donated by CP to the City of Toronto in 1986 for a museum on this spot.

It is our intention to restore it cosmetically and mechanically.


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1041
Location: Leicester, MA.
Try calling the Hobo Railroad in New Hampshire. They have a small fleet of S-series switchers that work their passenger trains regularly. Either that or Claremont and Concord, as they have experience with some S-series examples as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
It would help if the request is a bit more specific- are they needing help with individual injection pumps, the entire gear driven fuel rack including injection pumps, or the electrically driven transfer pump?

Are the injection pumps stuck? If this is the problem, they can probably be freed up without a full rebuild and calibration.

With this specific information, I'm sure you'll receive plenty of advice.

You might want to contact Andrew Merrillees Ltd in Laval. They were very helpful when I led the crew that brought CP S-3 #6591 back from the dead at RMEO.

http://www.merrilees.com/locmo.html

1100 Montee Masson,
Ville de Laval,
Quebec, Canada
H7E 4P2

Phone: (450) 661-3355
Fax: (450) 661-3317

Do you have the MLW service and operator's manuals for the locomotive in the TRHA collection?

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 509
Location: Canada
My information is that it is the fuel injector pumps themselves that need help. The bench test of the injectors showed that 2 opened at 3600psi while the other 4 opened at 3000psi.
Anyways, if you need more information or would like to offer technical assistance, the lead hand on this job is Michael Guy, who can be reached at Garattguy@gmail.com
I will give progress updates on this restoration if anyone is interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
Here's another company in Montreal that might be able to help. I've never dealt with them, but they apparently do this type of work:

http://www.hitesi.com/en/services

You might consider talking directly to Bosch, who made the injection pumps and injectors for MLW. Would they possibly consider overhauling the equipment in return for a little goodwill and a tax receipt?

I didn't need to bother with this on 6591, as once I freed up the seized pumps they worked fine and the injectors were very good, with the possible exception of one on the #2 cylinder which isn't that bad.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:42 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:10 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Iron City
Bosch sold off this injection pump and nozzle product line long ago. Once upon a time, Hatch and Kirk was the go-to source for 539 engine material.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:57 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:11 am
Posts: 57
Location: Cattaraugus, NY
Jefferson Diesel Supply
3691 Vonnie Dr, Harvey, LA 70058
(504) 340-5162

I just had pumps and injectors done for a 660 HP 539. All of the parts are still available. They will need yours sent in, as the 539 stuff isn't done on a unit exchange basis. It takes a little longer because they may have to order some of the internal stuff.

The other place that I have used is Mid Continent Manufacturing,
3900 Rita St, Wichita, KS 67213
(316) 945-0023 Dave Halary

I have used them in the past as well. They are a good source for hard to find 539 engine components. They maintain many large bore engines. They still service some 539 power in oil & gas rigs!

Pat Connors
CMO BSOR


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:25 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 509
Location: Canada
Thanks for the info guys, hopefully she can be running in the near future


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:52 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 509
Location: Canada
Today's news from the John Street Roundhouse...
"We had a busy day today, the batteries are hooked up and we motored the
engine over (without injectors). It spun up like a good thing quite a bit
faster than we were getting with the Hobart Welder. Chris has reinstalled
all six injector pumps and a new fuel filter. One of the injectors is in -
five more to go. Fuel supply system is tested - no leaks and runs up to
50psi.

Jobs for tomorrow are the remaining injecters, close up the various access
panels, have a look at the main generator and the traction motors, unhook
the pre-lube pump and push the start button. That last item will probably
happen late afternoon if we don't hit any snags."


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:24 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 509
Location: Canada
Chris Fox spent the entire day (ably assisted by Megan) working around 7020
to finish putting parts back in place and buttoning up the access panels
ready for a start attempt that we eventually made at about 5:30. I emptied
a can of ether in the direction of the turbo-charger air intake while Chris
handled cab controls to crank it over. It cranked and fired and stopped and
fired again a number of times but we were not able to get it to sustain and
run at idle speed. Close but not quite. We made a lot of smoke and blew a
lot of carbon chunks about but it would not settle in to sustained running.


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:34 am
Posts: 107
Location: San Pedro CA
Do you have a book Fuel Injection Equipment Maintenance the cover individual at cly

August,1954 Model APF 1CC 170 ,APF 1D 160 ,APF 1D 200 page 34.

I have about 5 item ALCo 539 a disk, I need you address an zip.

Owen S. Paulsen


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:36 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 563
I'd be skerred at using ether too much, or at all really. The massive intake volume in big diesels can provide the perfect area for a large explosion. When an engine is right, they fire up without cussing and backfires and ether. Better to warm up the engine coolant and oil, one trick an Alaskan I know uses is a heat gun down the intake. A big intake backfire can ruin your hearing on a 'good' day and ruin the engine as well on a bad one....


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
Try putting a wrench or similar tool behind the link between the governor and fuel rack, and prying outward during the start attempt. Don't let it back until firing on all six cylinders. This will ensure fuel delivery if the governor is sluggish picking up after all these years.

As well, be sure you keep the start button pushed in until the engine has fully started and the lube oil pressure has reached something like 40 lbs, or the low oil pressure switch will stop her.

Don't get discouraged, the old girl has been shut down a long time!

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5550
Location: southeastern USA
The first time the E was fired up at Spencer after years of sitting, it took over a case of cans of ether and several rechargings of the used batteries before the fuel was through the injectors and it wanted to run on its own. Lots of black and heavy gray smoke was involved in the process. I wouldn't assume there's anything wrong in your approach, I think it is just going to take as long as it takes.

dave

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Alco 539 rebuild help
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:44 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 509
Location: Canada
The first attempt had it firing on 2 cylinders
http://youtu.be/a8sHESrt8YY

7020 is being cantankerous ... It has a lot of carbon build up on the valves which is not allowing the combustion to properly burn .... The flames are from unburnt fuel in the exhaust chamber ... The more we run it the smoother it will become

7020 has new injectors and injector pumps ... But the intake and exhaust valves as well as the piston rings have not been looked at in over 30 years ... To do this a complete engine tear down would have to happen ... I'm trying to avoid this option

I believe that a weeks worth of work and it could be purring like a kitten ... Or ... Chugging like an Alco ..

Nice vid Alex

Fox


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