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 Post subject: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:23 am 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
When I was about 12 or so, we went to that park in Ocala. I have pretty fond memories of the place it was pretty neat for a kid. A few years later they closed it for good and sold everything off. They had two running Crown engines which I know where they are today. I was curious about the two static engines they had there. One was at the entrance to the park and the other nearby the RR station. I climbed around on the station one and knew enough to recognize it was a former “real” locomotive. I’ve always wondered about the history of these two static engines and whatever happened to them. Nothing on the web that I could find. Does anyone know anything about these locomotives? One as a 2-4-2 and the other a 2-6-0.
I found this photo of the one at the station: http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/commerce/com03186.jpg
This is the one at the parking lot: http://www.wjmurphycompany.com/Images/t ... onbgrd.jpg
And again as I KNOW someone will want to chime in on the Crown engines, I’m only talking about the former static locomotives that were at the park at the time. One crown is in Atlanta and the other is in TX hauling people.

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:09 am 

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Location: southeastern USA
The one at the station is a Glover product which went to decorate a restaurant after 6 Gun Territory died. When the restaurant went belly up, it was moved by a private individual to Ohio. He has reportedly run it on air, but I don't have a clue if it will ever be truly restored or if it is available to be seen up close and in person. Somewhere I have the history and C/N, but not readily at hand.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:58 pm 

If the 2-4-2 pictured is a standard gauge affair then there are really only two engines of this type still in existance that make good canidates for being this engine according to Wes Berris' website.

One is the 2-4-2 at the St. Louis and Iron Mt. in Missouri or the 2-4-2 in display in Cowan Tennessee. Looking at pictures of the one in Cowan it looks remarkably similar.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Dave wrote:
The one at the station is a Glover product which went to decorate a restaurant after 6 Gun Territory died. When the restaurant went belly up, it was moved by a private individual to Ohio. He has reportedly run it on air, but I don't have a clue if it will ever be truly restored or if it is available to be seen up close and in person. Somewhere I have the history and C/N, but not readily at hand.

Does anyone have photos of it anywhere? I wonder where it came from. Even then, it looked pretty badly worn out, even to a small kid without a mechincal background...

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Sure P, there's a link to a photo posted above.

Another 2-4-2 is in Savannah, or at least most of it was when I worked there, privately owned and was under restoration when I last heard about it. I'm almost convinced it is the 6 Gun 2-4-2 since it worked with the Glover engine on a SC logging line near Columbia, and might have been purchased as a set. Holly Hill lumber maybe?

I'm at work away from my boxes of paperwork - maybe Jason or Zahrt or somebody who has more recent knowledge can pitch in here.......

dave

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Sure P, there's a link to a photo posted above.
I know, I'm the one who posted it, I meant a photo of it since that time...

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:33 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I was wondering about your question........but figured it never hurts to express the obvious, which is often overlooked.

I have in my hand Fetters' LOGGING RAILROADS OF SOUTH CAROLINA and the Glover is shown in service on the back of the dust jacket. Photos of it and the 2-4-2 are on page 125, 126, 127. Hillman's book has it listed as C/N 10168 and outlines its history on pages 39-40.

The museum in Kennesaw got what was saved from the Glover works and might have builders photos, and a file of correspondence relating to that C/N. A tragic amount of stuff was lost when that facility was demolished.

Good hunting.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
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As I understand it and please assume this is unsubstantiated rumor, the Glovers kept everything at the machine shop in fairly good condition. There was a few million dollars set to move the railroad shop artifacts in an organized manner to a safe location.

The City of Marietta who had the funds (?) could not get its act together and release the funds. The City wanted the Glover property for an overpass of CSX (formerly, NC&STL, SCL, L&N, W&A).

The Glovers got tired of waiting on the City to get the movement of the artifacts organized and finally departed to set up a new machine shop in south Georgia (near Albany).

The artifacts (plan, patterns, etc) were left in the to-be-demolished buildings that were open to the weather by that time. Dick Hillman (who wrote an extensive history book about the Glover history of locomotive construction - "Glover Steam Locomotives The South's Last Steam Builder") found out and he went out in the freezing rain and snow flurries to rescue what he could.

As I understand it, there are seven or eight Glovers left. The one in Ohio is running on air and is not available to the public. It is like the Texan who owns the Garratt and does not allow visitors.

There are two Glovers at the Kennesaw Museum of Civil War and Locomotive history. This has the two incomplete 0-4-0t Glovers (different gauges) on display and in a setting to look like they are being worked on.

There is one Glover (2-6-0) that is on public display in Marietta fully restored. It was repossessed by (returned to?) by Glover and was never resold.

There are two ex-Chattahoochee Brick Company 0-6-0s at Agrirama near Tifton. These were custom built since the Brick company track run underneath a railroad trestle with only 8 feet of clearance. They are an ungainly looking pair. One has only one driver set remaining. The Brick company used two sets of the drive wheels on a diesel when the dieselr wheels wore out.

The other Glover is in Puerto Rico. I think it is a 2-6-2t.

FYI

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Dougvv wrote:
As I understand it and please assume this is unsubstantiated rumor, the Glovers kept everything at the machine shop in fairly good condition.

This would depend on the definition of "good". I can personally attest to the crawling around on collappsed racks of patterns help up by stacks of other patterns in an effort to find the pattern for a sand dome cover needed for the restoration. Never used castings - including 2 sets of cylinders and steam chests - were buried under tons of stuff when a roof collapsed inside the erecting shop.

The Glovers got tired of waiting on the City to get the movement of the artifacts organized and finally departed to set up a new machine shop in south Georgia (near Albany).

The foundry part of the works had been in Cordele for many years before the closure. raw castings were trucked from Cordele to Marietta for finishing.

The artifacts (plan, patterns, etc) were left in the to-be-demolished buildings that were open to the weather by that time. Dick Hillman (who wrote an extensive history book about the Glover history of locomotive construction - "Glover Steam Locomotives The South's Last Steam Builder") found out and he went out in the freezing rain and snow flurries to rescue what he could.

Dick and I had to thaw out the lock on the gate with a fusee to get in and worked insoide the roofless walls of the erecting shop to triage what was left. The archival material had already been thrown out the second story windows of the laboratory and drafting building. Most of the other structures apart from the sawtooth warehouses were in very bad shape by then.

As I understand it, there are seven or eight Glovers left. The one in Ohio is running on air and is not available to the public. It is like the Texan who owns the Garratt and does not allow visitors.

There are two Glovers at the Kennesaw Museum of Civil War and Locomotive history. This has the two incomplete 0-4-0t Glovers (different gauges) on display and in a setting to look like they are being worked on.

There is one Glover (2-6-0) that is on public display in Marietta fully restored. It was repossessed by (returned to?) by Glover and was never resold.

Returned to - and never found a new home.

There are two ex-Chattahoochee Brick Company 0-6-0s at Agrirama near Tifton. These were custom built since the Brick company track run underneath a railroad trestle with only 8 feet of clearance. They are an ungainly looking pair. One has only one driver set remaining. The Brick company used two sets of the drive wheels on a diesel when the dieselr wheels wore out.

These poor critters sat outside at Cherokee Brick for long enough in one place for a pretty large tree to grow between the frame and boiler on one of them. They are unique, and represent a lot of history: Glovers got into locomotive building when a Glover married into the Dunwoody family, who ran Cherokee Brick. Glover also built a lot of brickyard machinery. A Glover was a receiver of the M&NG narrow gage and copied a lot of the Porter technology including slanted cylinders from this experience.

The other Glover is in Puerto Rico. I think it is a 2-6-2t.

There's a link from a recent thread to Latin American steam with a photo of this little 2-6-2T. I had lost track of it.
FYI

Doug vV

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:33 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:58 am
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I believe both these display engines are ex-Holly Hills Lumber. They were acquired about 1962 by Western Heritage USA / Six Gun Territory.

The 2-4-2 is 1914 Baldwin b/n-41648 that is now at Savannah History Museum, Savannah, GA.

The 2-6-0 is 1925 Glover b/n-10168 that is now displayed indoors at US 90 & 4th st in Jacksonville Beach, FL.

Bob Albertson


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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
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Dear Bob:
The 2-6-0 on display at Jacksonville Beach is H.K.P. c/n 4845, formerly displayed at St. Augustine, FL. The long story of how it ended up where it is now is posted inside the display building which can be entered if you are part of the guided tour which occures several times per day. Great Atlantic Boiler Co. has done cosmetic restoration work on the locomotive (including a phoney stack).
The former Holly Hill Lumber/Western Heritage USA locos. are as posted above: the 2-4-2 (BLW c/n 41648) at Savanah, GA and the 2-6-0 (Glover c/n 10168) in Ohio.
The 2-4-2 is pretty much totally disassembled, but most of the parts seem to be on site or accounted for (as of last March when I saw it last). Steam Operations Corp. is working on the locomotive as funds are available.
Be well,
J.David


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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:27 pm
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Here are some very old and poor quality pix from my visit as a child.


Attachments:
File comment: One of the Crown's
SixGunTerritory1972_2.jpg
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SixGunTerritory1960s.jpg
SixGunTerritory1960s.jpg [ 115.37 KiB | Viewed 3692 times ]
SixGunTerritory1960s_2.jpg
SixGunTerritory1960s_2.jpg [ 112.97 KiB | Viewed 3687 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:27 pm
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And Three more;


Attachments:
SixGunTerritory1972.jpg
SixGunTerritory1972.jpg [ 137.58 KiB | Viewed 3676 times ]
SixGunTerritory1972_4.jpg
SixGunTerritory1972_4.jpg [ 134.85 KiB | Viewed 3678 times ]
SixGunTerritory1972_3.jpg
SixGunTerritory1972_3.jpg [ 134.15 KiB | Viewed 3677 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: “Six Gun Territory” Ocala locomotives?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:22 pm 

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The 2-6-0 is in Groveport, Ohio in a private collection of cars, planes, and other nostalgia. Has about 100' of track to run on, and is operated on compressed air. Have confirmed through local sources.


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