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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
OK, then - assuming somebody would successfully win a bid on the decapod, how would it be possible for it to be cost effectively moved from the railroad? If you locals can't answer that question, you are unlikely to attract many high bids.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:55 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
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The best way I can see moving the AT&N #401 would be in 3 large pieces. I think a route could be found to a rail siding but you would still be paying a heavy hauler to get it the few miles needed {if it was going by flat car/Gon}. If I recall they moved the SY from PA this way, in pieces. We moved the Copper Range #29 this way too, but she is smaller and we left the running gear intact. Would be nice to move in one piece but I think it will eventually, like the SY, be split up anyway. I know they moved the two LS&Is and a couple others on a flat car in one piece. But as Jason mentioned it would be a trip just to get to the railhead. It would require a "special" move regardless how it was moved or how far. Maybe if you got the right hauler just continue by road would work best? Buyer would have to figure out what worked best for them. She came all the way from Birmingham, AL on her own wheels, sure won't be leaving that way. Partial disassembly of running gear will probably need to happen for weight reasons. Again the wheels will have to come off eventually anyway. I think coming up with the money needed quickly will be a much bigger obstacle. Unless one had back channel intel on the sale it is a pretty short window to secure the money needed for purchase and transport, not to mention putting the whole plan of action together to justify the purchase. A farm auction is one thing, selling of large railroad locomotives and rail cars is another. Most buyers will need time to secure finances and formulate plans. If not offered a reasonable window of time I would think this would limit your potential customers and good stewards of the historical equipment?

Think anybody who would buy this locomotive other than the scrapper would be able to figure out how to do the move easy enough. The scrapper would already know exactly how to move it out. In all fairness to MC I cannot see them allowing either locomotive to be cut up, the really bad PR would be very counter productive to the MC mission statement. So I wouldn't worry that they would allow this to happen. Also think who ever gets the #401 is going to get one heck of a good locomotive.

Cheers, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:31 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Obviously a heavy hauler or two or three.....but what about those little lightweight bridges mentioned in a previous posting? Can they handle a heavy hauler with a load?

This is the kind of thing people want to know about before they commit to a bid.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:56 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
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Location: Youngstown, OH
John Risley wrote:
In all fairness to MC I cannot see them allowing either locomotive to be cut up, the really bad PR would be very counter productive to the MC mission statement. So I wouldn't worry that they would allow this to happen. Also think who ever gets the #401 is going to get one heck of a good locomotive.

Cheers, John.

Unless that is specifically stated beforehand, MC could end up in a situation where they would be forced to allow a purchaser to scrap the locomotive. Once the gavel drops and the money is paid, MC has no more say-so in the matter. That is why it would be imperative to place restrictions on the sale of certain historic artifacts.

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:27 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
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I drove truck for 25 years, sometimes you had to go around scales and bridges. Inner city Chicago it was the low bridges years ago. I think one could find a route to avoid the bridge in question. BUT, the town roads are narrow and the turns awfully sharp for an extra long load and I could see the roads getting torn up and someone or some township might be pretty ugly if you tore up the back roads. I have never been a heavy hauler so this is out of my league. Being over a few thousand lbs over weight and on back roads is just not the same situation for sure.

They removed the #1385s running gear out not long ago by truck. They had to remove the #3 driver because of weight issues. I think she is about a 80-90 ton locomotive and can't give actual weights that went out. It may have been needing permits or could of been both that and weight limit on bridge? I think with the #401s boiler and wheels removed it could go. Of course the seller and buyer would have to make some sort of arrangements and again I think talking to a heavy hauler would be in order before bidding. The bridge in question is pretty new but do not recall if there is a posted limit. Both the Copper Range #29 and #1385 are smaller locomotives so there was no doubt more flexibility involved in trucking. Definitely a job for heavy haulers to assess for do-ability. What heavy haulers do daily would give me ulcers. In the end Dave a potential bidder would have to do his homework. I would not count on a museum of volunteers or auction company to tell me what can or can not be done for transport. Although one of the active members is actually a heavy hauler and he would have a much better idea than I would. To me this again is a very short window for any potential buyer to come up with a working plan as well as the money to expedite.

Hot Metal I agree and do see your point. I can only hope this has been thought about before hand by the powers that be. It would be very ugly if not thought out any further than this. I can't say to much more on this part of the discussion as I am not involved in any form or fashion with the auction or decisions already made on how to proceed.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 121
Concerning #2, scrap is low, she would bring no more than $2000 at the scrap yard, at that price almost anyone could afford to buy her and do the most sensible thing, reassemble her for display! Yes I would like to see her run again, but I don't expect to win the lottery, and a display loco is better then not having her at all.
Mike Nix

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:41 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
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Location: Youngstown, OH
No. 2 will most certainly find a new home as it would make a good project engine for someone. The Decapod is listed at 105 tons. Not sure if that is its current weight or if that is in working order. I think scrap around here is a little over $200 a ton, but to make a profit it would have to be purchased around half of that, or around $10,000. I would estimate that a scrapper would probably go as high as $13,000 or $14,000 for it and still be able to turn a profit, especially if they purchase a majority of the rest of the equipment cheaply.

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I see your point John - but if the museum wants high bids, it would behoove them to offer all the helpful advice they can to prospective bidders.....otherwise, the rational interested bidder would have to assume transport would be very costly and difficult, and refuse to bid more than token amounts to cover the other costs. Perhaps they seek irrational bidders, in which case anything goes. Caveat Emptor is a double edged sword.

You have to wonder how carefully this process was thought through. I'm not sure 401 would pass the gift test based on what has been posted here......and the buyers premium on top of that.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
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Here in Saint Cloud Minnesota scrap is down to $60 per ton prepared! For those that don't know that means cut into 2 x 2 foot pieces, unprepared is even lower. There is a steel mill in St. Paul that may buy some of it, so higher prices elsewhere may reflect shipping costs.
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
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Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
Scrap prices are falling rapidly. I get email alerts from a local scrap yard here in New York that I've sold to in the past, and they've dropped their scale prices twice in just the last week.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
October of 2010, these are the two best pictures I have of the Decapod. She is absolutely restorable, but a tough nut to get out of her present spot.
Image
Image

Two other lost souls at Mid-Continent at that time:

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I see the jacket is still in place in 2010 - has asbestos abatement been performed since then?

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Ballard, WA
Image

Here's a Decapod picture I shot in 2010.

Original Size photo.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Chris -

Nice photo of the Decapod. Donated by Woodward Iron where it was their number 41. Previously Alabama, Tennessee & Northern #401. This was a Baldwin "light 2-10-0" which was designed to run on light rail and used the Russian Decapod as a model. Baldwin also designed a "medium 2-10-0" and both designs found buyers in the 1920's and 30's. None of the medium designs survived, but a number of the "light' models did including 41/401, the Gainesville Midland engines and of course, ex-Great Western #90 now in service on the Strasburg.

Les


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