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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 457
Location: Winters, TX
Just as an off the wall suggestion, I'm wondering what the cost would be to repair the damaged rail bridge? If the locomotives and Pullmans are to be removed by rail, it might be more economical to repair the bridge rather than trying to haul them to a railhead via truck. Perhaps the buyers would be willing to chip in along with the museum, thereby killing two birds with one stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:03 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2466
Location: S.F. Bay Area
John Risley wrote:
Inner city Chicago it was the low bridges years ago. I think one could find a route to avoid the bridge in question.

Never heavy-haul through Chicago. The SS Badger is your friend!
http://www.ssbadger.com/schedule-fares/ ... rucks.html
It's made to haul railroad cars. The last railcar to ever cross Lake Michigan was South Shore #11.

Now you're in rural Michigan and could well remain so all the way to Toledo, as the well-groomed high-wide routes are generally rural US/state highways.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
Posts: 539
robertmacdowell wrote:
John Risley wrote:
Inner city Chicago it was the low bridges years ago. I think one could find a route to avoid the bridge in question.

Never heavy-haul through Chicago. The SS Badger is your friend!
http://www.ssbadger.com/schedule-fares/ ... rucks.html
It's made to haul railroad cars. The last railcar to ever cross Lake Michigan was South Shore #11.

Now you're in rural Michigan and could well remain so all the way to Toledo, as the well-groomed high-wide routes are generally rural US/state highways.


Except the rails on the boat and at the boat dock in Ludington are long gone and you have to know where they were to see where they were and then CSX has to accept the load unless you want to truck it a bit farther and use the GLC (nee Ann Arbor)

<lol>

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2213
Location: Northern Illinois
I think he means send the truck with the load across the lake on the Badger. The overhead clearance from railroad days is still there, and the deck structure is adequately strong. I believe they coal the ship by driving a semi trailer dump truck in on the rail deck; years ago when it was still a C&O boat, the C&O donated the move of IRM's flatbed steel hauler carrying a big lathe, IIRC, so carrying trucks was not out of the question.

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:39 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5389
Location: southeastern USA
Thanks Chris - off the boiler and cylinders, still in the cab. I'm trying to help a friend decide about investing in another (thankfully 25% smaller) hard to reach locomotive, and knowing just how comparable it is otherwise is going to be a big help in valuing it assuming this one is sold.

All things being equal (and they aren't) smaller is probably actually worth more since it will cost less to get moved. Still, I think it will be a source of good information.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:16 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 909
Location: Brampton, Ontario
What kind of stoker is the 2-10-0 equipped with?

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:17 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1328
Location: Strasburg, PA
Les Beckman wrote:
This was a Baldwin "light 2-10-0" which was designed to run on light rail and used the Russian Decapod as a model.


Perhaps the Russian was used as inspiration, but not as a model. There are considerable dimensional differences between the two.

BTW, What's the plan to return #1385 to the museum with no rail access and light duty road bridges?

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:37 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:07 pm
Posts: 143
Location: The beautiful piney woods of East Texas
Stoker appears to be a Standard type B or MB.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 418
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Les Beckman wrote:

BTW, What's the plan to return #1385 to the museum with no rail access and light duty road bridges?


The 1385 is not a large locomotive, listed at around 179,000 Lb, 85-90 tons. Only the frame and running gear left North Freedom and I think I remember the crane operator mentioning 18 tons, not an exceptionally heavy load. As for the locomotive returning, I don't know if the plan is to bring the boiler and frame to North Freedom separately and marry them back up there or whether that will happen at Spec Machine. Boiler and Frame will probably be in the 65 ton range, without water, cab or appliances. We have brought many pieces of equipment in over the highway bridge in North Freedom, including the Fish Car which weighed nearly 80 tons.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2478
hamster wrote:
We have brought many pieces of equipment in over the highway bridge in North Freedom, including the Fish Car which weighed nearly 80 tons.


I was just going to ask about that. There's an excellent series about historic preservation currently showing on PBS called "Ultimate Restorations". Two of the shows will be of special interest to railroaders, they did one on the fish car and one on Sierra #38.

The fish car one showed it being hauled in by truck, and that was pretty recent. It would certainly seem that if they can haul something that heavy and that long, then there's a good chance that pretty much anything else can be moved as well.

The work was done at Avalon Rail in Milwaukee, right next to I-94, so obviously they have a route from the site that accesses the freeway network, so as long as the route from the closest freeway to your final destination can handle it, you should be able to go just about anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:08 am
Posts: 19
hamster wrote:

The 1385 is not a large locomotive, listed at around 179,000 Lb, 85-90 tons. Only the frame and running gear left North Freedom and I think I remember the crane operator mentioning 18 tons, not an exceptionally heavy load. As for the locomotive returning, I don't know if the plan is to bring the boiler and frame to North Freedom separately and marry them back up there or whether that will happen at Spec Machine. Boiler and Frame will probably be in the 65 ton range, without water, cab or appliances. We have brought many pieces of equipment in over the highway bridge in North Freedom, including the Fish Car which weighed nearly 80 tons.


From the Nov. 18, 2013 entry on the MCRM C&NW 1385 Steam Status Page:

The work on C&NW 1385 continued throughout the weekend. On Saturday loose parts were rounded up from their storage places and placed on shipping pallets. Then on Sunday, the crane was at work again, this time lifting the C&NW 1385's running gear onto trucks for delivery to Spec Machine in Middleton, Wisconsin for restoration work there. The frame and two sets of driving wheels were loaded onto the first trailer around 2:00 p.m. The immense weight of these components required that one set of driving wheels and and the leading truck (i.e. the small wheels in the front that help steer the locomotive through curves) be separated, temporarily converting the 4-6-0 locomotive into a 0-4-0 wheel configuration. Project volunteer Pete Deets explains:

That conversion wasn't by choice... On the day of the pick, the operator quit lifting at 84,000 lbs. and the running gear hadn't budged from the rails yet. They dropped the front truck and the operator stopped again at 79,000 lbs. without lifting off. The #3 rods and driver were dropped and the lift was made at about 72,000-74,000 lbs. The truck and driver came in at 10,000 lbs. apiece.

Source: http://midcontinent.org/status/steamstatus_1385_journal2013.html

Videos of some previous truck/crane equipment moves at Mid-Continent are shown on the museum's YouTube page.

Copper Range #29: http://youtu.be/wxb8ExfxvjE

Badger #2 Fish Car (Camera 1): http://youtu.be/eE5dcxH-5oM
Badger #2 Fisch Car (Camera 2): http://youtu.be/I5RwKr0sa-c

LS&I Boxcars: http://youtu.be/v29np4IBXFM

C&NW #1385 Running Gear: http://youtu.be/t8IGQKYN-3E
C&NW #1385 Rebuilt Tender: http://youtu.be/i2052Cxs58Y


Charlie wrote:
Just as an off the wall suggestion, I'm wondering what the cost would be to repair the damaged rail bridge? If the locomotives and Pullmans are to be removed by rail, it might be more economical to repair the bridge rather than trying to haul them to a railhead via truck. Perhaps the buyers would be willing to chip in along with the museum, thereby killing two birds with one stone.


If I recall correctly, an initial engineering study estimated bridge repairs to be in the several hundred thousand dollars range. That would require a LOT of chipping in.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2466
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Beware of prices like that, that's the "hand the briefcase full of money to a contractor and walk away" price. A committed volunteer group could potentially do it for a tiny fraction if they were committed to do so.

High-wide-heavy roads are not necessarily the freeway. That's better done on the state highway network owing to bridges, which is exactly what Michigan has done. They also worked hard to eliminate technical and statutory bottlenecks. It works better than you'd think.

Out here in California, they are systematically replacing perfectly good freeway bridges with others that are merely taller. Just in case Google needs to ship any very large checks, and the An-225 is not available!


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 169
robert,
That estimate was made by our roadmaster who is a railroad professional who deals with bridges & track structure as a profession so I believe that is a pretty solid number. It is also beyond the scope of volunteer work in that a pier and many pilings need to be replaced as well as earthworks being restored. mld

As a ps: to Kelly - It is difficult sometimes, to discern between opinion and actual research. We have been working with a local heavy-haul contractor concerning the 1385. He has already researched and physically run the prospective route and been in contact with the respective town boards. He sees no problems with a 150,000 lb load.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 418
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Thanks for the clarification on the 1385, Pete. I was pretty sure that given the right number of axles the load on the bridge would not be a problem. And you are right about the wounded bridge. This is not a culvert that volunteer MOW folks can deal with. If it was, we would have certainly tackled it by now.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 823
Location: Bowling Green, KY
The fish car was closer to a 60 ton load as it had no trucks below it.

The locomotive does have an MB stoker but with the smallest of engines I have ever personally seen.

Anyone have a photo handy of a Baldwin "medium" decapod?

Cheers, Jason


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