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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:57 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5230
jasonsobczynski wrote:

Anyone have a photo handy of a Baldwin "medium" decapod?

Cheers, Jason


Jason -

They only went to two or three buyers as I recall. One of them was the GM&O (one of its predecessors). Don't recall the others without doing some digging.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:50 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
jasonsobczynski wrote:
Anyone have a photo handy of a Baldwin "medium" decapod?
Les Beckman wrote:
They only went to two or three buyers as I recall. One of them was the GM&O (one of its predecessors). Don't recall the others without doing some digging.


According to steamlocomotive.com, the GM&N ordered 16 medium decapods new from Baldwin between October 1924 and July 1927 as GM&N #250-#265. Listed as Class 250 (Locobase 1399). Middle entry and column: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/decapod/?page=gmo

The other railroad to order the medium version was the Kansas City, Mexico & Orient (AT&SF after 1929) in July 1925 as KCM&O #801-#805, later #2565-#2569. Listed as Class 801/2565 (Locobase 466). First entry and column: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/decapod/?page=atsf

Found a photo of GM&N #256 (serial #58365) at Louisville, MS, in September 1940, the month of the GM&N/M&O merger. Steamlocomotive.com lists that these engines were built as oil-fired (capacity of 3,500 gallons for both the GM&N and KCM&O orders), but this photo shows that at least the #256 was switched to coal at some later date.

Photo was taken by John B. Allen and uploaded by Joe Marascalco:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3447714

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:09 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
More photos:

First, the builder's photo of AT&N #401, as found here: http://www.msrailroads.com/AT&N.htm

Image

Second, the builder's photo of GM&N #251 (serial #57380), as found here: http://www.hawkinsrails.net/mainlines/gmn/gmn.htm

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Besides the locomotives, the Mt. Harvard could present an interesting opportunity. It's a 10 section, solarium lounge Pullman car. The open sections make it ideal for excursion or tourist railroad use, as opposed to a car with closed bedrooms.

Does anyone know how complete the car is? It appears work was stopped mid restoration.

Also, the CN commuter car would be interesting. Several of these are in regular service at museums and tourist railroads across America.

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1032
Location: Back in NE Ohio
wilkinsd wrote:
Besides the locomotives, the Mt. Harvard could present an interesting opportunity. It's a 10 section, solarium lounge Pullman car. The open sections make it ideal for excursion or tourist railroad use, as opposed to a car with closed bedrooms.

Does anyone know how complete the car is? It appears work was stopped mid restoration.


If a winning bidder on the Mt. Harvard (sister to Midwest Ry. Pres. Soc.'s Mt. Baxter ?) had or could reproduce the tables for each section, you'd have a nice premium-class car for an excursion train, what with the car's beverage service area and lounge section, potential revenue seating for 50 or so. Can be either an end or mid-train lounge (flat-end car with full-length glass in the lounge-end and a pass-through door).


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:39 pm
Posts: 30
Why do you want to alter and change that sleeper for tourist operation? I thought this site was about "Preservation." I can not believe you would even consider that option! I have worked on and in this sleeper. This car belongs in a museum setting where it can be appreciated, restored, interpreted, and operated along with other similar equipment. How many Pullman heavy weight era sleepers are still left with most of the exterior and interior appointments still in intact? Maybe 100 or so. Now with Pullman District in Illinois being designation a National Park Site it is even more important to save what is left. It's shameful! I have said enough!


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 49
rwkpullman wrote:
Why do you want to alter and change that sleeper for tourist operation? I thought this site was about "Preservation." I can not believe you would even consider that option! I have worked on and in this sleeper. This car belongs in a museum setting where it can be appreciated, restored, interpreted, and operated along with other similar equipment. How many Pullman heavy weight era sleepers are still left with most of the exterior and interior appointments still in intact? Maybe 100 or so. Now with Pullman District in Illinois being designation a National Park Site it is even more important to save what is left. It's shameful! I have said enough!


"Preservation" is a term up to interpretation. Adaptation for continued use seems to me to trump preservation for preservation's sake. To me, and to many of us who restore and operate our equipment, a living, breathing piece of history that has been adapted for modern use so that it can be appreciated while continuing to operate is a more dynamic piece of history than a lacquered museum piece. Granted, a gut-job would be undesirable from a preservation standpoint, but an adaptive refurbishment would be, to me, an excellent way to make preservation a dynamic process, rather than something that is done to seal up the past for observation through glass and behind rope


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1032
Location: Back in NE Ohio
rwkpullman wrote:
Why do you want to alter and change that sleeper for tourist operation? I thought this site was about "Preservation." I can not believe you would even consider that option! I have worked on and in this sleeper. This car belongs in a museum setting where it can be appreciated, restored, interpreted, and operated along with other similar equipment. How many Pullman heavy weight era sleepers are still left with most of the exterior and interior appointments still in intact? Maybe 100 or so. Now with Pullman District in Illinois being designation a National Park Site it is even more important to save what is left. It's shameful! I have said enough!


I doesn't have to be changed for any kind of tourist operation. The Mt. Baxter looks very much as it did when in Pullman service. Open sections are the old "upper/lower berth" arrangement you see in movies like Some Like it Hot. When the beds are not made, you have facing seating for up to 4 people (1920's size people, not 2015 size people). If the car is not restorable to operating condition, it could make a fine static exhibit for a musuem. Most Pullman's of this type had removable foldaway tables for each section that could be installed by the Porter for at-your-seat food/beverage service. That's what I'm referring to. I certainly was not advocating any extensive modifications of this car.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 49
PaulWWoodring wrote:
rwkpullman wrote:
Why do you want to alter and change that sleeper for tourist operation? I thought this site was about "Preservation." I can not believe you would even consider that option! I have worked on and in this sleeper. This car belongs in a museum setting where it can be appreciated, restored, interpreted, and operated along with other similar equipment. How many Pullman heavy weight era sleepers are still left with most of the exterior and interior appointments still in intact? Maybe 100 or so. Now with Pullman District in Illinois being designation a National Park Site it is even more important to save what is left. It's shameful! I have said enough!


I doesn't have to be changed for any kind of tourist operation. The Mt. Baxter looks very much as it did when in Pullman service. Open sections are the old "upper/lower berth" arrangement you see in movies like Some Like it Hot. When the beds are not made, you have facing seating for up to 4 people (1920's size people, not 2015 size people). If the car is not restorable to operating condition, it could make a fine static exhibit for a musuem. Most Pullman's of this type had removable foldaway tables for each section that could be installed by the Porter for at-your-seat food/beverage service. That's what I'm referring to. I certainly was not advocating any extensive modifications of this car.


That sounds reasonable...


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8638
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
rwkpullman wrote:
Why do you want to alter and change that sleeper for tourist operation? I thought this site was about "Preservation." I can not believe you would even consider that option! I have worked on and in this sleeper. This car belongs in a museum setting where it can be appreciated, restored, interpreted, and operated along with other similar equipment. How many Pullman heavy weight era sleepers are still left with most of the exterior and interior appointments still in intact? Maybe 100 or so. Now with Pullman District in Illinois being designation a National Park Site it is even more important to save what is left. It's shameful! I have said enough!

You argue it "belongs in a museum setting." Strangely enough, that's where it is now. Does Mid-Continent have another Pullman on display/in use? If so, why would they need two? If not, why is this supposedly wonderfully preserved car being declared surplus?

You suggest "maybe 100 or so" are left with most exterior and interior intact. Of those 100, how many do we actually "need" in "museum settings"? Maybe ten or fifteen, twenty if you count Canada. Add in a few running examples in PV service, the Dover Harbor, etc. Do we really need one at every "McRailroad Museum" nationwide?

I recently witnessed one of these "McRailroad Museums" with no fewer than five of these open-section Pullmans (ex-camp car duty, unrestored) sell off one to a better home, where it will supposedly be re-adapted for commercial service. I sure don't see anyone falling over themselves to help fix up the other four........


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
What is interesting to me about the sleeper, Mt. Harvard, is that it journeyed extensively in the West, including Seattle to Spokane as a Milwaukee Road car, and LA to Sacramento on the Southern Pacific as a Pullman car. That history would make this car a good fit for a western museum needing an intact sleeper to complete its collection. (The Milwaukee orange and maroon could also brighten up a museum dominated by the usual drab green heavyweight cars.)

The Mid-Continent website provides this history:
Quote:
...
While in its open-platform days, the car was reported to have operated on Southern Pacific’s line in the San Joaquin Valley as the set-out sleeper between Los Angeles and Sacramento (the train, the West Coast, continued on its way to Portland.) The car was in Pullman-operated sleeper service. 

The car was sold to The Milwaukee Road, which ran its own sleeping car service, and shed its Pullman Green paint for Milwaukee orange and maroon. The car was staffed by Milwaukee personnel and not Pullman employees as Porters.

Mt. Harvard first ran on Milwaukee’s Columbian as the set-out sleeper between Chicago and Minneapolis. This service was superfluous (the road also ran the Pioneer Limited overnight between these cities.)  Mt. Harvard went west to perform the same set-out sleeper service between Seattle and Spokane each night on the Columbian.
...


http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/st ... rvard.html


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 Post subject: Decapods from the Gainesville Midland Railroad
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 914
Hi,

The Gainesville Midland Railroad was built as a narrow gauge line, After many reorganizations and standard gauging, the line found purchase what turned out to be nine (9) 2-10-0s used between 1947 and 1959. In 1959 the line was sold to SAL and the fires were dropped.

201 Russian Dec Baldwin c/n 47956 exGM&O 92 sold in 1952
202 Russian Dec Richmond c/n 58847 leased AT&N 482 returned in 1952
203 light Dec Baldwin c/n 60342 exAT&N 402 at the Southeastern Railway Museum.
204 Russian Dec Richmond c/n 58823 exSAL 508 scrapped 1957
205 Russian Dec Richmond c/n 58855 exSAL 518, exMD&S 518 1952, scrapped 1957
206 Russian Dec Richmond c/n 58855 exSAL 544, exMD&S 544, 1951, currently at Spencer Shops as SAL 544
207 light Dec Baldwin c/n 57644 exSAL 524, 1954, scrapped in 1959 after donating parts to all the remaining sisters.
208 light Dec Baldwin c/n 61230 exSAL 530, 1953, on display at Winder GA
209 light Dec Baldwin c/n 61233 exSAL 533, 1953, on display at Gainwesville GA

The GM had the interesting distinction of having operated the last NARROW gauge train in Georgia (1914) AND the last Standard Gauge steam train in Georgia (1959).

Doug vV
"The Gainesville Midland and her Sister Short Lines" 2006


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 653
This is off topic but is related to the AT&N #401 going up for auction. This being one of my favorite locomotives I started googling info {couple of years ago} on Woodward Iron Co. trying to find out what I could on the #401 or in this case of Woodward Iron Co,#41. Very interesting history and growth of that company. They had it all, coal, limestone and iron ore and their own railroad to haul it to the mills. Again off topic but for anybody wanting to model a cool shortline this might be interesting for that. A few nice shots of the Woodward #41 {AT&N #401} pulling iron ore and coal. I never saved the link sorry. But worth going after if you have time. Great history not only of the rail part of the company but history involving steel industry as well, both early and late.

Have never been blessed to visit Strasburg and witness the #90 up close and personal, but I sure like the design. When I make it there eventually I will make sure I see the #90 operating if possible. #90 being close sister to the #401. Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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John -

I seem to recall that Woodward Iron offered Mid-Continent their choice of locomotives still on the property, and the folks at North Freedom took the 2-10-0. Don't know where I read that, maybe you can confirm (or deny)! I know that at least two other Woodward steamers exist; a 2-8-0 at the Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum down in Calera, Alabama and a 2-8-2 that ended up working for the Rockton & Rion. I also seem to recall that Woodward had quite a stable of steam at one time.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:44 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 653
I am not sure exactly how many Woodward Iron had, I didn't think it was that many but I would have to research it again. Over the years they might have though. I mean this as running at one time? I think the 2-8-0 was the one offered if memory serves me right. And it may not serve me right either. Think Richard Hinebaugh was the key figure in this locomotive as he was hunting all over looking for late steam. Actually Mr Butler might know more? I remember hearing there was a brand new rear flu sheet left behind for the #401. There are extra locomotive springs on the tender deck to this day along with the main rods.

Saw some old pictures of the 2-8-0 and it looked rather incomplete so this might be why MC went for the 2-10-0 which was in still in very good shape when MC got it. It rolled a long way from home getting to southern WI. If you notice in the older pictures she and her sisters had spoke pilot wheels. Now the #401 has solids with tires. On the fireman side the tire must of not been cooperative as someone welded on tabs to keep it in place. Not sure by who or when, always thought it happened in transit? Might of been a rumor, who knows. Sure hope she goes to a good home. Regards, John.


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