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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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John -

I was going through the internet looking for info on Woodward Iron and up popped an old thread on RyPN from 2001 in which I participated! Had forgotten all about it! Anyway, this thread "Greenwood SC Rockton..." mentioned an article written by Tom Lawson pointing out that Woodward had five 2-8-2's built by Baldwin between 1906 and 1912 all to the same design and numbered 19, 26, 29, 30 and 31. Two of them ended up on the Rockton-Rion, numbers 19 and 31. And both 19 and 31 survive so that makes at least four Woodward Iron steam locomotives that are still around. It also tells us that they obviously had quite a stable of locomotives at one time. I seem to recall seeing a photo of a Woodward Iron Company 2-10-2, but can't recall where I saw it, or whether my memory is incorrect (which certainly seems possible). Wonder if 2-10-0 number 41 was the highest numbered Woodward steam locomotive? It would mean she was the last one added to their roster.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:57 pm
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Location: Birmingham, AL
Some history of Woodward Iron RR can be found at John Stewart's Birmingham Rails site:
http://www.bhamrails.info/


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Les Beckman wrote:

I seem to recall seeing a photo of a Woodward Iron Company 2-10-2, but can't recall where I saw it, or whether my memory is incorrect (which certainly seems possible).
Les


I tried to find out some information on this "supposed" Woodward Iron 2-10-2. It seemed like an awfully big engine type for an industrial operation, so thought my memory was faulty. But I did find a reference on the internet today that makes me wonder. Apparently this went back to 2004 and was in reference to some All American Trains model of this particular wheel arrangement. I have no idea as to what the gauge was on this; HO or O or something else. Anyway, the writer was talking about the particular model as follows:

"This is one of the former Lehigh Valley 2-10-2's #4060-4075; the Hocking Valley got these and renumbered them 130-145. They later went off to the LS&I, the C&O, the Pere Marquette and to Woodward Iron."

So, there you have a reference to a 2-10-2 type going to Woodward! No photo on this report which was apparently submitted by someone with the initials FM who described himself as "webmaster of PM Historical Society".

I don't recall reading this particular report previously, but perhaps it is where I heard about a 2-10-2 at Woodward. Sure would like more info.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:35 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Les Beckman wrote:
"This is one of the former Lehigh Valley 2-10-2's #4060-4075; the Hocking Valley got these and renumbered them 130-145. They later went off to the LS&I, the C&O, the Pere Marquette and to Woodward Iron."

So, there you have a reference to a 2-10-2 type going to Woodward! No photo on this report which was apparently submitted by someone with the initials FM who described himself as "webmaster of PM Historical Society".

I don't recall reading this particular report previously, but perhaps it is where I heard about a 2-10-2 at Woodward. Sure would like more info.


Here's what steamlocomotive.com says:

steamlocomotive.com wrote:
Numbers 4060-4075 sold to the Hocking Valley in 1920 and became HV numbers 130-145. The HV numbers 130-139 became C&O numbers 2950-2959. HV numbers 140, 142 & 144 sold to the Lake Superior & Ishpeming in 1930 and became LS&I numbers 36, 37 & 38. HV numbers 141 & 143 sold to the Pere Marquette in 1930 and became PM numbers 1198 & 1199, which became C&O numbers 2960 & 2961. HV number 145 sold to Birmingham Rail & Locomotive in 1930.


Birmingham Rail & Locomotive, which is still in business (est. 1899), is located in Bessemer, AL. Steamlocomotive.com does not list the sale of the #4075/#145 by BR&L to Woodward or what number it carried.

BR&L website: http://www.birminghamrail.com/

Steamlocomotive.com page for Lehigh Valley 2-10-2 Santa Fe-type locomotives: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/santafe/?page=lv

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:12 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 203
I did a Goggle search yesterday on Woodward Iron and came up with a page that listed their locomotives. They had a 2-10-2 number 33.

There were a couple of photos of it on the site, nice looking locomotive.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:45 pm 

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AlcoC420 -

Great! If you can find the Google site, I'd like to see the photos. I'm assuming that Woodward #33 is the aforementioned ex-Lehigh Valley engine. They couldn't have had still another 2-10-2 could they?

Thanks for checking this out!


Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 691
Les I hunted around and found some pics of 2-8-2 #31-33 and a few others related. One site had some pics of WICo 31- 33,38 and 41 with a montage of other locomotives on bottom link, not sure if Woodward fielded a lot of locomotives at one time or not. Can't find near the links I had found at one time. But between the three or so mines they operated and a very large mill complex with multiple plants I think is safe to say they had a number of locomotives running at any one time. Sure wish I had saved my searches as normally I don't research things as much as I did on the Woodward Company a few years back. Had quite a bit of info on the founding family, railroad and mines and general history of steel making and technology in relation to all of this. Quite fascinating, probably worthy of a separate thread as we are diverting from the auction subject for those who might care about keeping them separate? Doesn't bother me but might someone else?

Correction on #38. The picture of it looking incomplete was from 1994. So the comment on why MC chose WICo #41 over the #38 is probably not correct. Someone probably had the parts stored at the time of the picture as she looks reasonably complete now?

Interesting too is history of why and when #41 retired {ICC flue time up} and consolidation #35 catastrophic running gear breakdown. Catastrophic as it sidelined the locomotive permanently. Birmingham AL was the place to be in the very late 1950s to catch some of the last of steam. Of course there were other places around the country that ran late too. Must of been a very dirty city, but fascinating just the same.

Regards, John.

http://www.bhamrails.info/Woodward_Ind_ ... otives.htm
http://www.bhamrails.info/Woodward_Ind_ ... _RR_06.htm

https://apps.lib.ua.edu/blogs/digitalse ... any-train/

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=woo ... edIndex=26


Last edited by John Risley on Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:18 pm 

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John Risley wrote:
Les I hunted around and found some pics of your 2-8-2 #31-33 and a few others related. One site had some pics of WICo 31- 33,38 and 41 with a montage of other locomotives on bottom link, not sure if Woodward fielded a lot of locomotives at one time or not. Can't find near the links I had found at one time. But between the three or so mines they operated and a very large mill complex with multiple plants I think is safe to say they had a number of locomotives running at any one time. Sure wish I had saved my searches as normally I don't research things as much as I did on the Woodward Company a few years back. Had quite a bit of info on the founding family, railroad and mines and general history of steel making and technology in relation to all of this. Quite fascinating, probably worthy of a separate thread as we are diverting from the auction subject for those who might care about keeping them separate? Doesn't bother me but might someone else?

Correction on #38. The picture of it looking incomplete was from 1994. So the comment on why MC chose WICo #41 over the #38 is probably not correct. Someone probably had the parts stored at the time of the picture as she looks reasonably complete now?

Regards, John.



https://apps.lib.ua.edu/blogs/digitalse ... any-train/



John -

The above reference to the University of Alabama digital library website, certainly shows that number 33 is a 2-10-2, with an inside bearing trailing truck. This looks like it could be the former Lehigh Valley engine.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:17 pm
Posts: 203
There are 2 photos of the 33 on that site, one taken from each side of the 2-10-2.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 750
These are two of the cranes being offered:

Industrial Works C/N 2927 120 tons Wrecker Steam 1914
St. Louis, Iron Mountain & Southern #Z-8
Missouri Pacific RR #X-105 1928
M-CRHS 1967
http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/se ... px105.html

Orton & Steinbrenner C/N 44770 18 tons Steam
City of Minneapolis, MN
Soo Lines #X-81 1929 (retired at North Fond du Lac, WI 01-01-84)
M-CRHS 05-84
http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/se ... oox81.html

Does anybody have any information on the American crane being offered?


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 691
To the best of my knowledge the Mopac wrecker is in decent shape. It had a good boiler and was running condition for many years. I got it going in the mid to late 1970s with some help from Warren Tissler {RIP}. After it was running others took over. I recall the state inspector thinking boiler was in very good condition. This was in the mid to late 1970s. Everyone I know who ran it thought it was in very good shape mechanically. It did have a mechanical failure where a dog failed to secure the block {think this is correct as I wasn't there} and the load came down fast. I talked to Bill Ria shortly before he passed away and he thought the crane was in good shape and the repair wasn't serious. Just a matter of going after the problem. Bill was a very experienced steam wrecker operator for the SOO line.

The smaller Soo crane never ran at MC to best of my knowledge. Supposedly it was in good shape. But again to the best of my knowledge no body ever did anything to the crane since it arrived at MC. BJ Miller might know some more details on this crane as he often worked out of North Fondulac, Wi where the crane was stationed until retirement. Real shame about this crane as it was more than likely in pretty decent shape {maybe not cosmetically} when it arrived. Like so many other museums around the country MC just kept getting more and more donations with no buildings, money or man power to keep up with the monster work load needed to preserve, maintain or restore some of this equipment. This little SOO crane would of been a real sweetheart to have in working order. Along with everything else.

Hope this helps? John.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:16 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:13 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Les Beckman wrote:

I tried to find out some information on this "supposed" Woodward Iron 2-10-2. It seemed like an awfully big engine type for an industrial operation, so thought my memory was faulty. But I did find a reference on the internet today that makes me wonder. Apparently this went back to 2004 and was in reference to some All American Trains model of this particular wheel arrangement. I have no idea as to what the gauge was on this; HO or O or something else. Anyway, the writer was talking about the particular model as follows:

"This is one of the former Lehigh Valley 2-10-2's #4060-4075; the Hocking Valley got these and renumbered them 130-145. They later went off to the LS&I, the C&O, the Pere Marquette and to Woodward Iron."

So, there you have a reference to a 2-10-2 type going to Woodward! No photo on this report which was apparently submitted by someone with the initials FM who described himself as "webmaster of PM Historical Society".

I don't recall reading this particular report previously, but perhaps it is where I heard about a 2-10-2 at Woodward. Sure would like more info.

Les


As the "FM" who originally wrote that 2004 post in the rec.models.railroad Usenet group, here's the background. It was in reference to a photo that the All American Trains hobby dealership in Germany had posted of what it thought a then-recently-announced HO scale 2-10-2 from Life-Like would look like.

They showed a photo of a Lehigh Valley R-1, sixteen of which the Hocking Valley bought, then later sold on to the C&O (ten), LS&I (three), PM (two) and (according to Stauffer, Shuster and Huddleston in C&O Power) Woodward Iron Co (one).

All American Trains was a bit presumptuous, as Life-Like released a model of a bog-standard-design USRA 2-10-2, not the rather distinctive anthracite-burning Lehigh Valley locomotive with its wide firebox and twin-kettle sand domes that they showed.

The C&O Power note on the disposition of HV #145 (page 115) indicates that it was sold to Woodward Iron as their #37. There was no other indication in the book as to what happened to it once it left the C&O, or what Woodward's intentions would have been for it. It was certainly awfully large for industrial use.

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Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org


Last edited by fmilhaupt on Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:11 am 
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Thanks, Fritz, for the info on the #4075/#145/#37! This means that Woodward did indeed roster two 2-10-2's, the other being the #33 as previously mentioned. Anyone have info on the history of that loco?

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:25 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
For the record. Woodward Iron was a very large operation. From the Historic American Engineering Record, "The Woodward Iron Company established the first iron furnace in the Bessemer area, and began operation of its first furnace in 1883. The Company later expanded to include coal and ore mines, quarries, furnaces, and a private railway. In 1966, it was reportedly the largest independent and completely integrated manufacturer of pig iron in the U.S. ". Thus the need for heavy power on its railroad. 2-10-2's would have been right at home.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Auction
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:59 pm 
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Just for a comparison of the #33 and #37:

First, the photo of the #33 as linked to earlier.

Second, a photo of one of the LV engines, #4045, taken in November 1950. Uploaded to RR Picture Archives by Gary Everhart.

https://apps.lib.ua.edu/blogs/digitalservices/2012/04/20/the-woodward-iron-company/woodward-iron-company-train/

Image

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4099018

Image

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