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 Post subject: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 261
I have a question for the History Professors here to Ponder.
Whats the oldest surviving example of an internal combustion rail car?

Doodlebug, speeder, Bud Car, no matter.

However it had to be specifically manufactured and sold to run on rails, be propelled by an internal combustion engine, and still exists some where on this planet.


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:33 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Newtown, PA
How about the 1903 North Eastern Railway Petrol-Electric, surviving in the UK?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1903_Petro ... ic_Autocar


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1881
Dan Patch Electric Lines 100, a 1913 gas-electric box motor, preserved at the Minnesota Transportation Museum.

http://www.mtmuseum.org/roster.php?page=dpl100

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3381
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Might not be quite the oldest, but Virginia & Truckee's restored McKeen car (1909-1910) would be in the running:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_a ... tor_Car_22


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 372
Location: Northern California
The Hall Scott gas motor car at CSRM has its original gasoline engine. It is Naveda Copper Belt #21. It was operational when it arrived at CSRM. I think it was built in 1910.


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:00 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 914
Hi,
The Rio Grande Southern Geese (2-7) survived. They were and were not built built for the rails. The power plant was an automobile but the RGS shops altered them heavily to carry freight so that part was new. The original axles for the automobile part were removed and small diameter wheeled trucks were manufactured. I think the original automobile differential was used.
With two (#2 and #5) with two 4-wheeled trucks and four (#3, 4, 5, 7)with three 4-wheeled trucks, this kitbash (with NEW cargo areas) could fit. RGS was the manufactured and it was more than adding flanged wheels to automobile axles.
I can see that they would fit AND not fit into this category.
RGS #1 was more along the lines of a model T with flanged wheels and Goose #1 was the next in the evolution (4-wheel front truck and automobile differential with flanged wheels.
They were late in the game though - 1930s.
FWIW.
Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:26 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1433
Location: Strasburg, PA
LO&S car #10 at the Strasburg Rail Road is the oldest mentioned so far (at least the car part is, dating from circa 1880). It was converted into a self propelled car powered by a Buffalo marine engine and a four speed manual transmission that was specifically designed for the car and patented in 1915, so the "self propelled" part makes her an also-ran in this company.

She is now powered by a diesel engine and hydraulic pump & motor combination that drives the original four speed (which stays in high gear).

She is running every week day until March 27th when steam trains start seven days per week.

Image
From Google

_________________
"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:15 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 914
Hi,

The LO&E at Strasburg is a great ride. Thanks for keeping her ooperational.

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 261
Interesting info.
It looks like the UK's NE Railway 1903-04 Gas-Electric 3170 is the winner so far, although McKeen 22 and Dan Patch/GE not far behind.
To bad so many of these units have lost there original engine/drive systems. I would love to have seen the “silent” chain drive on the McKeen car.
Lots of details on McKeen here
http://www.mckeencar.com/gallery-2/hist ... motor-car/


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 810
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies
I would venture to say that the gas car on the left in this photo is a potential contender. Other than being captive in the EBT shops, I know nothing about it.
Image

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/roster.html


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 441
Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
I was also thinking of the EBT speeders, but I don't know when they were built. I can't imagine any of them are earlier than 1920 though, so they're probably not in the running.

In the realm of early narrow gauge speeders, there is also a 2-foot gauge Fairbanks-Morse gas speeder from the SR&RL -- this in addition to the three surviving automobile-based SR&RL railcars. None of these are from before 1920 though.

http://srrl-rr.org/FM_speeder.htm

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:27 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 489
Minneapolis, Saint Paul, Rochester & Dubuque Electric Traction Company #100
(Whew! what a mouth full).

General Electric 1913.

Think of it as two GE Gas Electric Car cabs back to back.

Dan Patch Lines.


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2315
Location: Northern Illinois
Before anyone becomes overwhelmed by the antiquity of Dan Patch Lines 100, keep in mind it too has been re-powered, just not as recently as the gas car at Strasburg and the McKeen car in Carson City. Here's a link to some history:

http://www.mtmuseum.org/roster.php?page=dpl100

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 331
Location: NJ
This Mudge equipped velocipede is about the oldest piece of motorized MOW equipment I know of;

http://www.sbdepotmuseum.com/home/mudge-motor-car.html

_________________
cv the civil E in NJ


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 Post subject: Re: The oldest internal combustion rail car around?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:34 pm
Posts: 25
Mr. Anderson, I don't know how long it been since you have been to the EBT but that speeder car has not been captive in the shop since 2007. It is one of the few pieces of EBT equipment that is currently operational. None of the speeders on the property are older than 1920.


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