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 Post subject: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 459
Was wondering if anyone has utilized the LED Tube type of Edison Bulbs in their period station and buildings? The filaments are replaced by miniature LED tubes. Looks like they would pass the 5 or 10 foot test (looks correct from 5 feet away).

This is the type I am referring to: https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-filament-antique-bulbs/
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Rich C.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:29 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Three Bridges NJ
Rich,

The folks at Aamsco have looked into LED filaments for bulbs but they are not strong enough for headlight bulbs at the current time.

Scott


Last edited by Scott Kwiatkowski on Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1885
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
That is a really impressive product

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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:18 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Yes they are impressive, it just goes to show just how crazy versatile LED technology is.

Scott Kwiatkowski wrote:
The folks at Aamsco have looked into LED filaments for bulbs but they are not strong enough for headlight bulbs at the current time.

They're not intended for that purpose. I think for people who are serious about classic-look locomotive headlights, the way to go is incandescent bulbs.

Building a LED substitute locomotive bulb would be a challenge mainly due to removal of waste heat. There's certainly far less heat than from an incandescent, but an LED is far more sensitive to it. I mean an incandescent bulb must burn white-hot by definition, an LED can't go over 90C. The heat comes from the phosphors which turn blue light into white.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 459
Wasn't talking about headlights, that is why it is a separate posting. Was thinking more about old stations & workshop displays. Gives you the look of the old Edison bulbs but made with the new LED technology.

Think of one of these at the end of a twisted wire, with a bare socket and a saucer or pie plate reflector hung above a work bench or desk.

Rich C.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:57 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 794
Location: NJ
Very slightly off topic, but has anyone noticed how bright the headlights and ditch lights are on the new Amtrak ACS-64 electrics? I think I had read somewhere that they are LEDs. The Brits, with the Tornado, are using LEDs for the headlight, powered by batteries, which are recharged while in motion by an alternator on one of the tender axles. The technology is changing fast.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 641
Here's a question that I'm sure has arisen in the minds of a lot of users of 120V lamps in trolley cars: Can LED lamps such as the subject of this thread be used 5 in series on 600VDC? If they can't, then what sort of LED devices might be capable of this usage?

Not a purely academic question, since virtually all trolley lighting circuits originate from the 600VDC source and the 5 in series use of 120V lamps in very common.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:20 pm 
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Location: MA
EDM wrote:
Very slightly off topic, but has anyone noticed how bright the headlights and ditch lights are on the new Amtrak ACS-64 electrics? I think I had read somewhere that they are LEDs. The Brits, with the Tornado, are using LEDs for the headlight, powered by batteries, which are recharged while in motion by an alternator on one of the tender axles. The technology is changing fast.
I was sbout to point that out, most of what I have seen repelica bulbs used for are trolleys, and most of the LED bulbs out there have regulator ciricuts that are expecting 110-120 VAC and may not take kindely to high voltage DC.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5252
Location: southeastern USA
We probably need to bring back the 600Dc to 110 Ac gennymotor for lighting in-service trolleys as technology changes, and the luxury of wiring in parallel and not sweating the loss of one lamp eliminating a whole string is an added benefit. these LEDs would look right at home......

dave

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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
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As the Light Rail Vehicles of the 70s and 80s start to be phased out (and the Boeing units are already museum pieces), perhaps some of them would have inverter modules that could provide power to streetcar lights.

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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Voltage converters are easy enough to come by. The problem would be rewiring the car from 5-in-series to all parallel. LED "bulbs" are not going to work in series unless they're designed to.

David H. Hamley wrote:
Here's a question that I'm sure has arisen in the minds of a lot of users of 120V lamps in trolley cars: Can LED lamps such as the subject of this thread be used 5 in series on 600VDC? If they can't, then what sort of LED devices might be capable of this usage?

Not a purely academic question, since virtually all trolley lighting circuits originate from the 600VDC source and the 5 in series use of 120V lamps in very common.

Those are NOT ordinary incandescent lamps. Transit grade bulbs are specifically designed for 5-in-series transit use on 600vdc, with features to arrest an arc. If you use hardware store incandescents, you could burn the car down.

The exact same is true of LEDs. This is not as hard as you might think. The hypothetical transit grade LED's innards would all have to be insulated and rated for 600vdc. The switching power supply (which "chops" arbitrary input voltages into correct current for the LED) would need to work OK on 100-600v. It would also need to "fail safe" during undervoltage (motoring a big car 5 miles from the substation) or inadvertent misuse in a 12v caboose, 32v PCC, 74v locomotive, or 120v household socket.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Southern California
It appears that Incandescent Filament Light bulbs in the style illustrated are still available in 40 and 60 watt sizes.

I saw these in the local Home Depot store and found them in its on-line store:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Globe-Electric-40-Watt-Vintage-Edison-S60-Squirrel-Cage-E26-Incandescent-Filament-Light-Bulb-Antique-Edison-3-Pack-31324/205687065

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Globe-Electric-60-Watt-Incandescent-S60-Vintage-Squirrel-Cage-Medium-Base-Light-Bulb-01321/205143832

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Globe-Electric-40-Watt-Incandescent-S60-E26-Vintage-Edison-Squirrel-Cage-Filament-Light-Bulb-Antique-Edison-01324/205687045

A search for Globe Electric turned up this website:
Globe Electric

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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 641
Mr. MacDowell's comment about "Street Railway" incandescent lamps is spot-on. They are insulated to withstand the 600V (or more) that they will see when they are the one-in-five-in-series that burns out first. If an arc strikes inside the base of the lamp it can quickly destroy not just the lamp but also the socket. And perhaps whatever the socket it attached to--like a trolley car. Don't cheap out and try to use any lamps not so marked in your cars--it's a very risky chance to take.

Conversion of 600VDC to something lower, whether AC or DC, has for some decades now been done with electronics with few if any moving parts. As an example the familiar Motor-Generator set of PCC cars being redone for SF MUNI Rys. has been eliminated in favor of static inverters. There still needs to be a blower to cool the propulsion equipment, but the rest of the M-G function is now electronic.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Efficiency of the cheap 50 cent a bulb incandescents was terrible, since maker (and consumer) cared only about purchase price and not a whit about energy usage. The law permits incandescents on which some modicum of effort has been made to improve efficiency. It also permits ornamental lights.

Unless it's a royal and ancient brand like Philips or Siemens, its mere presence at Home Depot impugns its quality. They sell the worst 中国垃圾 in a pretty box with a puffed-up brand name designed to resemble a quality or domestic product. I would aim higher. I find 1000bulbs.com to be a reliable and very well priced source. I also like to keep an eye on superbrightleds.com.


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 Post subject: Re: On the topic of bulbs
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:24 pm
Posts: 70
The folks at Cree in Durham NC make LEDs in the USA which are sold at HomeDepot on the east coast at least NJ to GA probably more. I can't stand behind their quality yet, but I hope the Crow is warm for RM or else I will eat it cold.
Respectfully,
Sully


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