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 Post subject: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:46 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Occasionally I will see guys throw glass bottles, aluminum cans, into the firebox. Aside from the waste of a recyclable resource, is this bad for the engine? Is that molten glass going to jam something in the grates or ashpan?

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5250
Location: southeastern USA
Small occasional doses will just turn into traces in the cinders. If a considerable part of the constant fuel diet, troublesome.... but apart from those of us that burn waste crankcase oil, which is a form of recycling in itself, I don't think anybody is feeding enough trash as a fuel stock to make much of a difference. It would be nice to develop good workable fuel stocks from waste products, better than landfills.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:54 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
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I am a bit concerned about the glass bottle serving as a flux for cinders or actively adhering to movable parts and then 'freezing' when the temperature drops. There might be an increased tendency to form dead spots in the firebed, for one thing. I don't know offhand if fluxed ash constituents or glass would lead to overheating or 'corrosion' of the grates, or whether deposits on the ashpan would adhere and be difficult to clean, but I'd at least keep watch for that.

There might be a problem with carryover of some trash or pyrolysis products into the flues or smokebox. I doubt the occasional aluminum can would pose much difficulty -- I'd be more concerned, again, that the melted metal would adhere to the ashpan and be difficult to remove.

A potential concern is if the ash is being sold for some recycled purpose. Certain types of 'contaminant' might make it unsuited for whatever purpose it's being used for, and the 'recycler' might not be aware, or test for, some contaminants because they think it's unlikely they'd be present in a locomotive fire (as they might be in, say, ash from a commercial incinerator).

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:21 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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The fire burning can melt metal/glass but the firebox etc system stops all that because of the water causing cooling. Why we don't have more boiler explosions. I'd be concerned of flue buildup any potential metal corriosion enhancing chemicals, but little bits may not do much. If you threw your trash bin in I'd say...hay, weight a minuto...


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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:13 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 419
Location: Floyd, AR
An aluminum can would pretty much vanish in a hot fire. I kind of expect that glass would end up in blobs in the ash.

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:26 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
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Location: Strasburg, PA
softwerkslex wrote:
Is that molten glass going to jam something in the grates or ashpan?

Clinkers are essentially glass, so the bottle thrown in would make its own little clinker, and that would be that. You wouldn't want to throw in fifty glass bottles evenly distributed throughout the firebox, but I don't see one causing a noticeable problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:12 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 427
You do have to watch out for empty Wendys Chilli bowels.

I saw a bag of these tossed into a firebox and the Pops lifted! ;-)

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:23 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Bucks County, PA
HudsonL wrote:
You do have to watch out for empty Wendys Chilli bowels.

I saw a bag of these tossed into a firebox and the Pops lifted! ;-)

-Hudson


I'd hate to see anyone's "bowels" tossed into a firebox!! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I don't think they would smell like BBQ....

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
I've seen the occasional pop can put in through the sanding hole, almost like loading a torpedo.

I've also seen the occasional can at a campfire, and they are so thin they quickly burn into a very thin ash. You'd ned to toss a lot of them for it to be a real problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:01 pm
Posts: 74
Location: LA or NC
I was once diagnosed with Wendy's Chilli Bowels.


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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
That's what might be called a "habanero hotbox"!

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Dave wrote:
.... but apart from those of us that burn waste crankcase oil, which is a form of recycling in itself....

no, it's a form of pollution. Used motor oil contains heavy toxic metals and other nasties picked up from the innards of the engine. You shouldn't even use it to lube switch points because it will turn the dirt under the switch into "dirty dirt" that will require disposal in a special landfill if tou are caught. That is why lube oil should be properly recycled. OR....

google "black diesel" and note the purification processes they use - notably with centrifuges to get rid of the nasty heavies. The light fraction coming out of the centrifuge should be ok.

Aluminum cans burn because like many metals (sodium, uranium), aluminum is pyrophoric. It wants to oxidize a lot, and will do so violently and exothermically in the right conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
Robert, no matter what you recycle it will in some manner result in something which can be described as pollution. Breathing, for example.....

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Trash in Firebox
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:25 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Well if you're exhaling lead, chromium or arsenides, you really might want to see a doctor!


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