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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 186
I'm going to go out on a limb now. Here's a possible scenario, but I'm open to hearing other ideas:

The C'ville 2-2-70 lettering was put on a leased gon, or a still-serviceable "scrap" gon at Circleville when the engine was moved from Sturm & Dillard at Circleville to Erie. The same gon was used, with the same lettering, in 1971 when the engine was moved from Erie to Orrville with the original slope back tender. A second-hand square tender was obtained to replace the deteriorated slope back tender. This square tender could have come from the DT&I (possibly a Russian Decapod tender previously used in MOW service), or it may have come from another source and had the DT&I emblem added by the owner.

This scenario seems to fit the time line, circumstances, and equipment descriptions we know, but it probably isn't the only explanation. Tim Sposato probably has access to more information than I have, so I would gladly defer to him. Maybe the tender trucks have cast-in lettering that could help with the I.D., but even that might not be definitive. It might be helpful to check dimensions of 105's tender against the dimensions of a Russian decapod tender or some other tender.

An interesting mystery. Hopefully it can be solved.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:06 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Bendena KS
I met Art Davis in 2004 when I was doing some work on some cars that were stored at his site in Orrville. In talking with him then, he indicated that the tender with the 105 was not original and that he had given the original slope back tender to a museum (which still had it at that time) and then acquired the tender now behind #105. I can't remember which museum got the tender, just that Art said the had a use for it at the time and had never done anything with it so he had half a mind to take it back.

Jason Midyette


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:57 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Catching the Eastbound
Good idea's Tom, the trucks are marked DT&I, I'm not much of an authority on DT&I locomotives, figured you and others on this board might know what class of locomotive it may have came from. If I can get a specification sheet of their tenders, we should be able to I.D. it. As you said, maybe MofW service saved this nice tank.

Appreciate the information as well from Jason....now if we can see if the tender still exists. Wonder which museum may have gotten it...?
Thanks for all the input.
TJ Sposato


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:30 pm
Posts: 56
While I am certainly glad to see ANY steam locomotive rescued to be preserved, I can't help but wonder what the long-term goal of AofS really is? They have a magnificent facility with a really great collection of steam power, but what are they actually working toward?


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:29 am
Posts: 52
Long term goal is to educate and keep a dieing trade alive for future generations,think of it as a railroad college


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:46 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Ballard, WA
I believe per Henry Ford's preference, DT&I tenders received two (somewhat redundant) rear ladders.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:17 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:18 am
Posts: 108
Location: B'more MD
It's Art Davis with the torch, and Ted Church standing on the pick-up truck. Not sure if the photo was taken when the 105 arrived at Erie, or was being prepared to leave Erie. The 401 gondola was purchased, but I don't remember now, from which railroad. I believe Art called the 105 the "Jessie B". I remember Art telling me that the slope-back tender leaked badly, and would require too much work to make it water tight. Art and Ted were involved in a number of ventures, together, and were involved with the MRHF, at the time. The working relationship between the MRHF and Church/Davis eventually deteriorated, with Church pulling his equipment from Cleveland to Erie, and Davis returning the 105 to Orville. Davis and Church remained friends until Ted passed away some years later. They were both good friends and I learned a lot from both of them.

G.F.Payne
Baltimore, MD

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:09 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 966
Location: Back in NE Ohio
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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:22 pm 
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Posts: 1898
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
cnj1524 wrote:
Long term goal is to educate and keep a dieing trade alive for future generations,think of it as a railroad college
I can't be alone in wondering how that's gonna play out in the long-term.
Jacobsen must have thought all this through already, to go so far to buy almost every available steam locomotive he can find and build what would have been an enviable facility even during the steam days.
But the website confuses me. It's great that they're documenting what they're doing so well, but that coupled with the, "Please stay away" messages seems to be a very odd duality to the project.
He's clearly doing what most train fans say they'd do if they only had the money and I'm very happy for the man. Mostly, I hope he can pass on that legacy like Blount did with his Steamtown collection. It'd be such a shame to gather such a fine collection and facility only to see the equipment scattered to the four winds and the enginehouse turned into the newest looking brewhouse (other some other 'repurposing') in the Midwest once nobody could afford to buy it for it's intended use when he passes on. I live very far away so they don't have to worry about me trespassing there. But I have to admit, I just don't get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:20 pm
Posts: 1910
Location: San Diego, Ca
p51 wrote:
But I have to admit, I just don't get it.


What is there to get?

I've posted this a number of times now, but not sure if people "get it."

Quote:
Additionally, an endowment has been established so that the monumental construction work of this roundhouse and the treasures it contains may be guaranteed continued existence into the future.


http://www.ageofsteamroundhouse.com/about_going.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 186
Tim:

There may be some clues at the front of the tender, where there might have been a knuckle coupler at one time. But I don't think that would tell you much. My DT&I sources are pretty limited. The double ladders may mean something. Maybe somebody else can help. I believe there is a DT&I web site and maybe an online group.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:29 am
Posts: 42
Location: Michigan
A longtime Detroit, Toledo, and Ironton Railroad fan here... this thread is an intriguing one to me.

I too, (as did Tom Davidson)... pulled Scott D. Trostel's DT&I book from a shelf to look up the locomotive
number from the equipment rosters published in his work, and sensed something was [off ]with the 105
number... noting most of the 100 series DTI locomotives were 2-8-0s.

As armchair entertainment, opinions and theories go... my observation is... that the painted DT&I herald is not
an authentic railroad application. The less than centered placement on the tender side, and the font on the
letter "I" is a polite giveaway. The letter "D" is a little lazy as well.

If the tender trucks are marked "DT&I" as TJ Sposato states... we could lean toward the idea that it may be a
former DT&I piece of equipment.

Which throws out a whole other question of... what locomotive did this tender originally mate with?

Mounting holes for a "Fordized" raised letter herald would likely be evident on the tender.

A photograph posted on this site back in 2013 of a Ford era locomotive and tender captured in Iowa looks very
similar to the construction style of the tender posted in this thread which may help in the puzzle.

http://transport.castlegraphics.com/dis ... =36&pos=35

Enjoying the forum and the mystery,

John


Last edited by Atkinson_Railroad on Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4981
John -

Thanks for bringing up Ford Motor Company #36 again. The BIG question about that particular 0-6-0 is why was it out in Iowa on a C&NW freight train? No logic for it being sent to Iowa (or further west) for scrapping as there were plenty of places right there in Michigan to do it! My guess is that there was some type of a Ford Motor plant that it was being sent to, to perform switching. Or perhaps sold to some company. In 1947, a steam locomotive was still a viable option, especially if one was surplus in Michigan. Anyway, this is off the subject, so back to 0-6-0 #105 at the AofS Roundhouse!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:30 pm
Posts: 56
I "get it", so far as working up an endowment for perpetuating what they are now doing; but with all that effort going into rebuilding all that steam power, what eventual use will it see? Or will they just rest in that beautiful roundhouse without ever getting to stretch their legs, or better yet, pull freight in the future? That is the long term goal of which I was referring, and was wondering about.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:50 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Bowie, MD
solar1953 wrote:
... Or will they just rest in that beautiful roundhouse without ever getting to stretch their legs, or better yet, pull freight in the future? That is the long term goal of which I was referring, and was wondering about...


If you've followed the past 20 years of steam on the mainline, you might have a slight sense it isn't really possible to have a long term operations goal beyond getting them ready and keeping the human art of maintaining and running them alive. Then when the opportunity presents itself, be in a position to do something. Is this not what the 611 and 765 teams did/do? How few of us thought we would see 611 operate again in our lifetime? Or see 765 pull over Horseshoe curve?

With the level of effort and resources at hand, why do you need a detailed plan going out other than the tens of thousands of hours that can be spent restoring what is in the collection? In the meanwhile, if you watch and listen closely you may be able to pick up the sounds of AoS is contributing to active projects today... from the storage and work on Leviathan to rebuilding of appliances on 611.

In any case, let the guy play with his stuff the way he wants too and relish the thought the equipment and roundhouse will be around for our grandchildren to see.

Bob


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