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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:17 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:18 am
Posts: 111
Location: B'more MD
It's Art Davis with the torch, and Ted Church standing on the pick-up truck. Not sure if the photo was taken when the 105 arrived at Erie, or was being prepared to leave Erie. The 401 gondola was purchased, but I don't remember now, from which railroad. I believe Art called the 105 the "Jessie B". I remember Art telling me that the slope-back tender leaked badly, and would require too much work to make it water tight. Art and Ted were involved in a number of ventures, together, and were involved with the MRHF, at the time. The working relationship between the MRHF and Church/Davis eventually deteriorated, with Church pulling his equipment from Cleveland to Erie, and Davis returning the 105 to Orville. Davis and Church remained friends until Ted passed away some years later. They were both good friends and I learned a lot from both of them.

G.F.Payne
Baltimore, MD

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George F.Payne
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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:09 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
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Location: Back in NE Ohio
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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:22 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
cnj1524 wrote:
Long term goal is to educate and keep a dieing trade alive for future generations,think of it as a railroad college
I can't be alone in wondering how that's gonna play out in the long-term.
Jacobsen must have thought all this through already, to go so far to buy almost every available steam locomotive he can find and build what would have been an enviable facility even during the steam days.
But the website confuses me. It's great that they're documenting what they're doing so well, but that coupled with the, "Please stay away" messages seems to be a very odd duality to the project.
He's clearly doing what most train fans say they'd do if they only had the money and I'm very happy for the man. Mostly, I hope he can pass on that legacy like Blount did with his Steamtown collection. It'd be such a shame to gather such a fine collection and facility only to see the equipment scattered to the four winds and the enginehouse turned into the newest looking brewhouse (other some other 'repurposing') in the Midwest once nobody could afford to buy it for it's intended use when he passes on. I live very far away so they don't have to worry about me trespassing there. But I have to admit, I just don't get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 187
Tim:

There may be some clues at the front of the tender, where there might have been a knuckle coupler at one time. But I don't think that would tell you much. My DT&I sources are pretty limited. The double ladders may mean something. Maybe somebody else can help. I believe there is a DT&I web site and maybe an online group.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:29 am
Posts: 46
Location: Michigan
A longtime Detroit, Toledo, and Ironton Railroad fan here... this thread is an intriguing one to me.

I too, (as did Tom Davidson)... pulled Scott D. Trostel's DT&I book from a shelf to look up the locomotive
number from the equipment rosters published in his work, and sensed something was [off ]with the 105
number... noting most of the 100 series DTI locomotives were 2-8-0s.

As armchair entertainment, opinions and theories go... my observation is... that the painted DT&I herald is not
an authentic railroad application. The less than centered placement on the tender side, and the font on the
letter "I" is a polite giveaway. The letter "D" is a little lazy as well.

If the tender trucks are marked "DT&I" as TJ Sposato states... we could lean toward the idea that it may be a
former DT&I piece of equipment.

Which throws out a whole other question of... what locomotive did this tender originally mate with?

Mounting holes for a "Fordized" raised letter herald would likely be evident on the tender.

A photograph posted on this site back in 2013 of a Ford era locomotive and tender captured in Iowa looks very
similar to the construction style of the tender posted in this thread which may help in the puzzle.

http://transport.castlegraphics.com/dis ... =36&pos=35

Enjoying the forum and the mystery,

John


Last edited by Atkinson_Railroad on Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5027
John -

Thanks for bringing up Ford Motor Company #36 again. The BIG question about that particular 0-6-0 is why was it out in Iowa on a C&NW freight train? No logic for it being sent to Iowa (or further west) for scrapping as there were plenty of places right there in Michigan to do it! My guess is that there was some type of a Ford Motor plant that it was being sent to, to perform switching. Or perhaps sold to some company. In 1947, a steam locomotive was still a viable option, especially if one was surplus in Michigan. Anyway, this is off the subject, so back to 0-6-0 #105 at the AofS Roundhouse!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:30 pm
Posts: 56
I "get it", so far as working up an endowment for perpetuating what they are now doing; but with all that effort going into rebuilding all that steam power, what eventual use will it see? Or will they just rest in that beautiful roundhouse without ever getting to stretch their legs, or better yet, pull freight in the future? That is the long term goal of which I was referring, and was wondering about.


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:50 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 392
Location: Bowie, MD
solar1953 wrote:
... Or will they just rest in that beautiful roundhouse without ever getting to stretch their legs, or better yet, pull freight in the future? That is the long term goal of which I was referring, and was wondering about...


If you've followed the past 20 years of steam on the mainline, you might have a slight sense it isn't really possible to have a long term operations goal beyond getting them ready and keeping the human art of maintaining and running them alive. Then when the opportunity presents itself, be in a position to do something. Is this not what the 611 and 765 teams did/do? How few of us thought we would see 611 operate again in our lifetime? Or see 765 pull over Horseshoe curve?

With the level of effort and resources at hand, why do you need a detailed plan going out other than the tens of thousands of hours that can be spent restoring what is in the collection? In the meanwhile, if you watch and listen closely you may be able to pick up the sounds of AoS is contributing to active projects today... from the storage and work on Leviathan to rebuilding of appliances on 611.

In any case, let the guy play with his stuff the way he wants too and relish the thought the equipment and roundhouse will be around for our grandchildren to see.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:10 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: Youngstown, OH
The one concern that I have about AOS is that they are pretty much stripping this region of historic steam locomotives, and relocating them to a place where they are out of reach and out of context.

Rivers of Steel had bid on that Carnegie Steel Duquesne Works Porter 0-4-0T, but couldn't match what AOS had bid. Fair enough, but we had planned to bring it to Carrie Furnaces, restore it and operate it within an historic steel mill. For a locomotive that was built in Pittsburgh and used at a nearby Carnegie plant, it could have been a very big deal in steam starved Pittsburgh. Perhaps even the seed that gets our idea of a rail museum at Carrie off the ground.

But alas, it is now in central Ohio, where it has no significance and where it will forever be overshadowed by the larger, more impressive locomotives in the collection. An opportunity to run steam at a National Historic Landmark blast furnace plant has been lost.

And as time goes on and more locomotives are acquired, the options for small steam locomotive restorations will continue to diminish as the available candidates are scooped up. Now the rebuttal to this is that these locomotives are endangered to begin with, and for their sake it is better to give them a secure home than to leave them sit out and rot. Yes I can understand and appreciate that aspect as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:41 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 323
Location: western Maryland
Rick, I understand your point of view and frustration that something that you and your associates had hoped for the future seems like a lost opportunity. Take comfort that the Porter is safe and secure where it resides for now.

It should be obvious that what Mr. Jacobson is pursuing is fueled by his interest in preservation and operation. I don't believe for one minute that if there were a place that
Carnegie Steel Duquesne Works Porter 0-4-0T could be sent that is the original operating location for it that he would object to that proposition.

Preservationists may have different priorities with respect to what is preserved, but most of the ones I know get satisfaction out of seeing history being repeated.

I have only met Jerry once, at the Knox and Kane liquidation auction, and we spoke for maybe 2 or 3 minutes. But the man has the heart of a preservationist. If I were a member of your group, I would cultivate a relationship with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:59 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:29 am
Posts: 52
Im sure he is eying up some more engines(when they come up)I would think that the
"keep out" and "no trespassing" are simply there for insurance liability,he offers now large group tours,when the concept art was first shown there are some more buildings that aren't there yet,if I recall there was another 5 stall roundhouse on other side of turntable,
give it time as it will be 1 hell of an attraction with a full working machine shop,roundhouse,ect


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:54 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 253
Location: Amherst, Oh
I wonder if people would feel better if engines were being acquired and sold by AoS. That way if there's a place for an engine to be preserved, like Hot Metal is suggesting, then it's still a possibility. Has anybody contacted AoS about buying any of their equipment?


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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1906
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
The idea of "Buy everything possible, then keep it all from public view" is pretty common in aviation preservation circles. I know, for example, of a B-17 bomber that was bought by a private collector, then put into a hangar never to be seen again. Even the people supposedly working on it have been sworn to secrecy and nobody even knows who they actually are. And for more than 15 years, nothing but rumors exist on the condition of the plane today (or even where it actually is for sure).
Jacobsen is hardly doing that, but a well-placed person I know at a very well-known tourist RR/steam shop once told described AOS as, "A sort of collection, shop, storage place and quasi-museum, maybe? Really, I have no idea what they're actually putting it there for..."

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 323
Location: western Maryland
"A sort of collection, shop, storage place and quasi-museum . . ."

Sounds a lot better to me than "scrap yard", "derelict", or even "Lost Engines of . . . ".

I might start using that description for my place.

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 Post subject: Re: Age of Steam gets another one
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:22 pm
Posts: 339
Having met Jerry Jacobson on several happy occasions and many steam rides, I'd say that if you're interested in an engine he has, let him know. He's seen a lot of "we'll fix that up, honest" projects over the years that ended badly and he wanted to prevent that with AoS. If he knows equipment will be properly restored and have a good home, he might go for a sale, trade or, at the least, a rental. Honest, he doesn't bite. He and his wife are easy to talk to once they know you love steam (and don't plan to argue politics.)

As for the "no trespassing" signs, he's terrified of lawsuits and wants big group tours with their own insurance.

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