Hello, Railwayj and all.

Congratulations are truly due to all of you at the Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum for your continuing restoration of MoPac 892. I do have a couple of thoughts on "improving" your restoration.

First, you stated that you used "stainless looking paint" for places that were originally supposed to be bare stainless steel. If that is indeed the case, you should (as time and labor allow) REMOVE THE PAINT, and polish the stainless steel to original finish. This will not be technically difficult, but will involve a LOT of polishing, to get past the "etching" layer the original painters placed on the stainless to get it to hold paint. However, the end result will indeed be worth it, and will indeed show off the best of craftsmanship that the Calera Shops are becoming known for.

Second, on the dome area itself. You should contact Avalon Rail to have them give you a quote on replicating the "missing" frame pieces to set the dome area fully back to rights. While this will not be cheap, it might not be as expensive as you think. The true charm of a dome car is the panoramic view afforded by the windows in the dome area. By restoring correct glazing to the dome area, you will present this view to future generations who may not otherwise understand the wonder the dome cars presented on the nation's railroads when they were in passenger service. As for the car being exposed to sunlight on non-operating days, you SHOULD at least be looking into overhead cover for the car. A "ramada" over the car will make the car less unpleasant for volunteers to work on even without restoring the glass to the dome.

While we are on the subject of glazing, since this is a post-WWII car, it requires FRA certified glazing in ALL exterior windows. While I'm sure that you know this at HOD, there may be some readers out there who don't, and who therefore don't appreciate the need for money when a museum holds a fund-drive to restore a post-WWII passenger car.

Thanks.

Brian J. Patterson.

Hello Brian J. Patterson and all,

It is really not that polite to tell other museums what they SHOULD do, especially after they've done such a nice job restoring the car.

David

"While we are on the subject of glazing, since this is a post-WWII car, it requires FRA certified glazing in ALL exterior windows."

This is not accurate. The requirements for FRA glazing on passenger cars vary quite a bit depending on the service the car is used for. Even Amtrak Certified passenger cars are not necessarily required to have FRA glazing. Considering the limited use this car sees, and also that it is at a RR museum, should exempt the car from any FRA glazing requirements.

Brian: No offense taken. I know you are just trying to be helpful. The car will be kept under cover as much as possible. Our overhead cover space is very limited.

Bill

Bill,

Just out of interest, why did you all choose to restore car in its MOPAC colors as opposed to IC colors?

Looks great either way.

I wasn't involved in the decision making process, but as far as I know the MOPAC colors were chosen because we wanted the restoration to be the original, first owner colors.

Bill

Thanks to Ed Ellis, there's lots of vintage equipment, including domes, running around in IC colors. I can only think of one other car in original Mo Pac streamliner colors, and that's the observation car at MoT in St. Louis.

The Museum of Transportation in St. Louis County also had a MP commuter car in the same colors as the dome and observation car.

The HOD dome looks splendid, great job!


Privately owned MP 640, 5DB-lounge "Eagle Cliff", operating on the Austin & Texas Central in TX is, and has for more than 30 years, wearing full Eagle colors. It was re-restored and repainted a few years back.


Bradley Linda
Waco, TX

Also, 10-6 Eagle Chasm in Houston, and another 10-6 near new Braunfels whose name I cannot recall at the moment are in full Eagle colors.

5DB sleeper-27 seat buffet lounge #640 Eagle Cliff was 1 of 3 such cars built in 1948 by P-S in Lot #6758 to Plan #4110.

#642 Eagle Ridge was rebuilt in 1966 to 60' RPO-baggage #387. The #387 was retired in 1969 and sold to Edwards International.

#641 Eagle Canyon was retired in 1966 and scrapped.

The Eagle Cliff was also retired in 1966 and sold to B. Dockall and J. Vaughn of Rockdale, TX, as the #800087.



Thanks, Bradley, for the info!

#615 Eagle Chasm was 1 of 6 10RM-6DB sleepers built in 1948 by Budd in Lot #9660-027 to Plan #9504. Only 2 of these cars had Eagle-series names; the other 4 had River-series names.

Randall lists that 5 of these 6 cars were retired in 1969, and 3 were subsequently sold to NdeM (via Edwards International) and given Country-series names. The 2 retired cars which were not sold were the Eagle Chasm and the #612 Elk River; Randall lists these cars as "held", meaning that there had been no changes in ownership or configuration between 1969 and when the info for the book was assembled.

The website of the Gulf Coast Chapter NRHS-Texas Railroading Heritage Museum (formerly the Houston Railroad Museum) states that they acquired the Eagle Chasm in 2005 from a private owner, and that it was previously located in Temple, TX. I don't know when this private owner acquired the car from MP.

The Elk River was also later sold to a private owner as the #800075, and in 1989 it was acquired by SCD as the #754 Leon. The Leon is now at the railroad museum in Puebla, Mexico.

As for the 3 cars which were sold to NdeM in 1969, I only have disposition info for one: the #581 Nicaragua (ex-MP #614 Eagle Butte) was 1 of several cars that were reported to be in a scrap line in Huehuetoca, Mexico, as of October 12th, 1999. This list was posted on the MEXLIST Yahoo Group website.

The 6th car, #611 Crystal River, was reconfigured in 1971 to crew dormitory-parlor #11, with the bedrooms retained and 8 parlor chairs installed. The #11 became UP property as a result of the merger, and it was sold in 1986 to FNM as #3594.

The 10-6 sleeper in New Braunfels is the Eagle View.

#621 Eagle View was 1 of 6 10RM-6DB sleepers built in 1956 by Budd in Lot #9660-171 to Plan #9538. All 6 cars are listed by Randall as retired in 1969, and 5 were sold to NdeM and given Country-series names. Like the Eagle Chasm and Elk River, the Eagle View is listed as "held", and I don't have any further info on who acquired this car or when. Pictures online show that the current reporting mark is MPLX, and that the car has had a number of mechanical upgrades done, including HEP cabling, with a #800xxx-series number applied, although I don't know what number this is, as there are no closeups and it isn't listed on Stan Garner's website.

As for the 5 cars from this Lot which were sold to NdeM, again I only have disposition info for one: the #583 Paraguay (ex-MP #617 Eagle Hollow) was in the same Huehuetoca scrap line as the former Eagle Butte as of 10/12/1999.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

5. Texas Railroading Heritage Museum's website: http://www.texasrrmuseum.org/index.html

6. Stan Garner's list of #800xxx-series numbers: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

The Iowa Pacific fleet includes 4 short domes which were actually painted in IC colors during their careers, including one of the P-S built MP/IC domes: MP dome chair-smoker #894/dome chair #594/IC #2210, acquired from the Minnesota Zephyr operation. The other 3 cars are North Coast Limited dome sleepers which were painted in Chocolate & Orange and ran on IC trains during the winter season, in trade for 11DB sleepers: CB&Q #304/#380, CB&Q #305, and NP #312/#378. The 2 renumbered cars were reconfigured in 1967 from the original 4 double bedroom-4 roomette-4 single bedroom sleeper-dome configuration to the "Lounge in the Sky" format, with 2 of the single bedrooms under the dome removed for a buffet service station, and tables installed in the dome. This allowed NP to remove the sleeper buffet lounge observations from the NCL consist.

JUST WOW! @_@

Congrats to NRHS Heart Of Dixie on restoring MOPAC 892 to it's former glory also! It's been wearing in that N&W/NS Modded Paint for a long time. I'm so used to seeing it behind N&W 611-1218 many a time back in the old days during the Classic NS Steam Program Era. I think the last time it saw any mainline action behind steam was back the NRHS 1994 Atlanta Convention. (Please Correct Me IF I'm Wrong)

I remember seeing some 8mm Film when it was in IC Colors behind SOU 4501. This car would also be a regular was part of the "New River Gorge" Excursion Trains consist behind NKP 765. Hope to see back on the mainline again. ^_^

I've always thought it interesting that MP ordered their Budd dome cars with fluting when the rest of the Eagle consist was not fluted, if I recall correctly. Perhaps that wasn't an option at the time, although later Northern Pacific and Great Northern managed to get their Budd domes without fluting.

This is a "bump" from an older thread that, while not relating to MP dome coaches, contained information concerning other MP lightweight passenger equipment, of particular interest to me, was the inclusion of information concerning the six, Budd-built 10-6 sleepers that were delivered to MP with six-wheeled trucks.

A search for the answer resulted in a second and third question.

Why were these six cars ordered an specified with six-wheel trucks? The first six 10-6's from the same order had four-wheeled trucks. Four of those cars were named for operation on the "Colorado Eagle" with two more for unspecified service. Greg Stout's "Route of the Eagles" speculates that because the last cars were ordered for service to Houston and Hot Springs, the cars were equipped with the six-wheeled truck for the light-railed Hot Springs branch to improve ride quality. Does anyone know for sure?

While five of the six six-wheeled cars were sold to Mexico, one car, [i]Eagle View[/i], was retained by MP. This car survives today and was stationed in New Braufels, TX, in private ownership. Recent photos of the car reveals that the car is now riding on four-wheeled trucks. Was this modification done by the MP before it was sold into private ownership? Were the six-wheeled trucks discarded at some point and replaced due to the unique nature of those trucks?

Thanks for any insight to these questions.

Don C.