Forgive me if this was already discussed. From TRAINS January 1972.

In reading a little more history of the Doolittle raid, i find it was not trained at Wendover. Now I will have to stop there and on my next trip east and see what I did get mixed up. I probably would not have mixed it up with the Enola Gay training since I have been to both Tinian and the Trinty site. Thanks for your correction.

Hi,

I recently (say the past 2-3 years) found out that one of the results of the Doolittle Raid was a successful prototype B25 that could be carrier based for both take off and landing. It took something like 14 months to develop. The B29 came into being about the same time and any ideas for an operational carrier based B25 were shelved.

If I recall correctly, I found it through Wikapedia when looking up the PBJ (Marine or Navy version of the B25).

Just to get the railroad angle back, I was chasing this down based on the John Wayne Movie "In Harm's Way". Interestingly enough this movie is the only one that I know for sure that has two different narrow gauge railroads in it. 1) When Wayne leaves his cruiser, he walks over two track of the former OR&L (36") on the dock. 2) A San Francisco cable car is shown (42").

Come to think upon it, another movie might have two narrow gauge lines "Ticket to Tomahawk" which shows both D&RGW and RGS.

Doug vV

You guys crack me up. Did any of you bother to check any books or online info on the Doolittle raid?
They DID train in the Eglin area: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Field

The photographer in the TRAINS photo is MAJ Raymond Hobin, US Army. A Google search shows LTC Hobin died in 2013 in Durham, North Carolina. He was not stationed at Eglin, but his bio notes he was stationed at Ft. Eustis and also served duty in Viet Nam. He had a railroad hobby, including a business repairing model trains. I thought I might find a source for further information about LS&I 32. Oh, well.

Wesley

If MAJ Hobin was stationed at Ft Eustis, that's the HQ of the Army Transportation branch, it'd make a lot of sense.

Wesley, It will just be a matter of time and the answers we seek will be had.

There is still a passenger car in ruins at Eglin. It can be seen in Google Earth. The coordinates were 30°39'03.8"N 86°23'53.6"W.

Might be possible to find remains of the LS&I 32 unless it is stored in a building for some reason? I would think by now any thing having to do with what ever experiments were conducted would be rendered obsolete by now.

Remote control for a steamer sure the heck sounds complicated for 1967. What the heck would be the point in going that far only to blow it all to bits? I bet they payed about $1400 for the loco and then what ever shipping charges to move it. I still say those guys could have built a moving target for less. But steam preservation in the 1960's was not as big as it would become later. I guess that is what the Gov't is good at though. Wasting taxpayer money.

Robert

It was the Vietnam war and the enemy still used steam locomotives. Practicing air attacks on moving steam locomotives seems completely within the mission of Eglin in 1967. And of course, you can't have a live crew on board driving the locomotive.

I don't think it was "blown to bits." I suspect they were firing some sort of non-explosive practice missile, and the photo from Trains magazine seems to bear this out; the engine looks like it's been beat upon a bunch, but no real evidence of an explosion.

For their purposes the "remote control" could have been pretty simple, maybe as simple as a remote solenoid valve to dump the air. Board the engine, tend the fire, and get it under way, then drop off. Plug the air at the other end of the range to stop it, board, and close the throttle.

Wonder how long the training program lasted?

The B29 crews that were assigned to drop the A-bombs on Japan trained at Wendover, including the special facility for loading the bombs into B29 bomb bays.

Maybe that is where the confusion lies.

I have my doubts as to whether or not the photo is of LS&I 32. The drivers seem a little too tall, the domes are not correct nor is the right hand side running board or air reservoir. The caption also refers to B&O and C&O lettering found on the tender. If it is not LS&I 32, what is it?

Don C.

I noted the C&O - B&O reference, and was wondering that myself. It seems to me, if the Air Force all of a sudden needed a crash course in boiler busting for their pilots, that they would have been foolish to only acquire one loco for a target... to much chance that a lucky shot would disable it and interrupt the training program. So, in the time frame we are talking about, what else would have been available?

Giving this program more thought today, I wonder if the locomotive was even fired. Pushing it with a remote control diesel behind a string of idlers would have served the purpose just as well, been more survivable, and could still be properly described as "operated by remote control."

The locomotive itself is a Chesapeake & Ohio G-7 or G-9, very similar if not identical to former Buffalo Creek & Gauley 13 at the Age of Steam Roundhouse in Ohio.

The Baltimore & Ohio had a subsidiary in Kentucky--I think it was the Sandy Valley & Elkhorn--that rostered six of B&O's E-27 2-8-0s. This road was isolated from the B&O, and was purchased by the C&O, with the 2-8-0s as part of the sale. The engines were scrapped in the 1930s, but the C&O apparently kept at least one tender and would use it as a replacement tank for one of its own engines; the C&O did a lot of tender swapping over the years.

More likely was it being attached to cables at each end and pulled back and forth with electric motors. I saw plenty of tank targets done like that when I was in the Army. I'd bet it wasn't under steam at all.

I wonder if this locomotive might have been one of the Winifrede RR's 2-8-0's? Both were around, though not in service, into the mid-1960's and then suddenly disappeared.