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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:08 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 87
Location: walton, ky
ex-US Army 1849 at Bluegrass Railroad Museum was always a neat engine to see and run. It too would throw chunks out. A friend has a video from nearly 20 years ago when the freight op next to it borrowed the engine. They cleaned it out.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:54 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 928
My late father-in-law was a gang foreman at the PRR diesel house in Harrisburg when the Fairbanks-Morse passenger units were in use in the early 1950's. He had nothing good to say about them. For example, in order to access the lower cylinders, the top half also had to be disassembled. He told me of one unit that was sitting outside the shop idling when a lubrication line broke and the engine sucked in the leaking lube oil, running until it used all its oil and then seized up. There were also problems with the engines overheating. In fact, I've heard it said that the F-M engines were good in submarines, where the entire ocean was available to cool them, but not so much in locomotives.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:25 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:23 am
Posts: 16
Does this unit have Westinghouse or GE electrical gear? Westinghouse stuff can be troublesome and tough to find...


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:27 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 253
AlcoGuy wrote:
Does this unit have Westinghouse or GE electrical gear? Westinghouse stuff can be troublesome and tough to find...


Traction motors should be 4 Westinghouse 370F motors. I believe the entire electrical system is Westinghouse.

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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:56 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:23 am
Posts: 16
Hopefully, the electrics are in good shape and intact. However, it appears it has roller bearing trucks, a big plus.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:11 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 630
As to whether 505 is Westinghouse or GE equipped, the real answer may be "None of the above." By 1954 FM was manufacturing much of their own electrical equipment.

According to data I have from Westinghouse sources 505 is FM serial 20L832 and was shipped 3/31/54. From late 1952 on the only FM locos for which Westinghouse supplied traction equipment were the H24-66 "Trainmasters." There is no Westinghouse equipment order corresponding to any H20-44 locos in that period. There is however a Westinghouse order listed specifically for AC&Y 505. That would be order CG-13561. This number does not appear in an extensive tabulation of all Westinghouse traction equipment orders, suggesting it was not for a complete set of equipment but more likely for some control gear.

The FM schematic for 505 is their drawing number 10522034. That drawing should give the definitive answer as to how 505 was originally equipped.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 630
Additional thoughts on 505's electrical equipment: The Westinghouse order referred to in my previous post does list a 15:63 gear ratio. That is the ratio that WH favored for their 370 series traction motors. Thus it is possible that 505 was built with WH 370 motors and that all the other parts of the system are GE or FM.

The reference to WH orders from 1952 on refers to a complete system order for the locos involved, main generator, control, motors, gears and all the small stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 1
What is the status of this restoration? Has the engine been moved yet? I am big AC&Y fan and would love to get involved in it if there are opportunities.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:15 pm
Posts: 1254
Location: Henderson Nevada
We used our FM, US Army 1855 on our last tourist train of 2016 on Dec 23rd... after our GP-30, UP 844 refused to load (main generator assembly issue, since solved)

1855 is currently in the shop receiving planned work on its brake valve, reverser (see note below), and the fan/radiator louver controls. She blows a lot of oil, traced to the seals in the roots blower. FM still supports the engine found in these locomotives, and would rebuild the blower, but it is expensive. We are working on that. We generally oil the space pen folks to the north rather than the Taco Bell which is to the south due to prevailing winds.

Thoughts... these are complicated locomotives... powerful for their time, but at the cost being complicated. They run hot... the FM double crankshaft engine is still used successfully in marine applications where you have an entire ocean of cooling water available... They were less successful in the desert which lacks an ocean of cooling water.

Our lead mechanic claims that the locomotive designer for FM must have been less than 4'6" tall, and had a brother-in-law working in the mechanical dept for a major railroad who he really hated... its best explains the design and issues found when keeping one serviceable.

On the reverser, which is in part pneumatic, does anyone have a source for the cups found on the pneumatic side? Some of the literature suggests that these were originally leather, later rubber. Ours has rubber cups. We have so far been unsuccessful in our search for a replacement, and may end up having them made. Alternately does anyone else need any?

Randy

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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 150
Randy Hees wrote:
Thoughts... these are complicated locomotives... powerful for their time, but at the cost being complicated. They run hot... the FM double crankshaft engine is still used successfully in marine applications where you have an entire ocean of cooling water available... They were less successful in the desert which lacks an ocean of cooling water.
Randy

There's no doubt about that. FMs were universally notorious for using up all of their cooling water within short amounts of time leading to severe overheating of the engine. I imagine for this very reason #505 hasn't seen much action in a long time. Luckily the AC&Y's topography was perfect for its operation among rolling hills and settle plains it could be used to its full potential. This said, #505 is not equipped with dynamic brakes or any other forms of regenerative braking. The short car body restricts any additional features from being added thus why the H20-44 class sold poorly.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:37 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 784
Location: NJ
This is the first I've heard of FMs being "universally notorious for using up all of their cooling water within short amounts of time leading to severe overheating of the engine". Where did that information come from? Where did the water go? Sources, please.

What I have been able to piece together, from many articles and books, is that on later FM production (i.e. post Erie-builts), there were issues of controlling the temperature within a narrow band, but not issues with overheating. Large fluctuations of temperature are not good for any engine.

Under load, like in long-distance road service (or on a ship), temperatures would stabilize throughout the engine. But in switching service, with frequent throttle changes and periods of sitting at idle, portions of the engine would heat up and cool off at different rates, expanding and contracting at different rates. Not good for gaskets and seals, or wear surfaces like bearings, liners and rings.

I don't have a lot of FM information, but I understand that the Erie-builts had a more complicated cooling system then later units, more marine like. With respect to marine service, I grew up reading WWII submarine stories. The FMs in our fleet submarines seemed to run the best at the end of a patrol in the Pacific. There was an un-official speed, 'All ahead Pearl Harbor'; the FMs were good for an extra 10 percent or so, days on end.

I have not worked on an FM, or even ridden on one for years, but I did get to run one when I was a kid; either a TM or one of the 1600 HPs on the Lackawanna. Those were the days; now just hanging around a railroad yard will get you arrested for trespassing.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 150
Gentlemen, forum members I'm proud to present the Fundly campaign for the preservation and restoration of Akron Canton & Youngstown #505. I expect it to be a long ride out but a good one at that. I'm looking to go down to Galveston this summer for an inspection and some additional photo taking. For one of the most difficult projects ever taken to rescue a diesel let alone an FM I strongly believe this will be worth the shot. Remember to leave a donation and a like on its soon to be Facebook page your support is always appreciated.

https://fundly.com/saving-ac-y-505

Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am
Posts: 523
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA
Is, the FM group also concerned with preserving FM scales and that assorted history? I'm interested in the platform beam scales, like those used for shipping agricultural products. These were used at cotton gins and could often weigh entire loaded tractor trailer rigs, and even more, on the same scale platform.

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Our "paper" archives will be the future railfans only hope. We (yes you too!) should endeavor to preserve all the info needed to allow them 100% accuracy in the building of their recreations.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:17 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 150
Loco112 wrote:
Is, the FM group also concerned with preserving FM scales and that assorted history? I'm interested in the platform beam scales, like those used for shipping agricultural products. These were used at cotton gins and could often weigh entire loaded tractor trailer rigs, and even more, on the same scale platform.


It is planned for the current time being to focus exclusively on Fairbanks Morse motive power and other railroad related products. I'd like to narrow in on the #505 and its home road the AC&Y for a start given the surrounding project. I don't have too many resources on hand unfortunately and it's slowly becoming a growing concern. Did FM ever have a company archives accessible to the public at any point or time?


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 Post subject: Re: Fairbanks Morse Preservation Society
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:34 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 166
Cameron Wolk wrote:
Did FM ever have a company archives accessible to the public at any point or time?


Ask them: http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/

CD


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