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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I know it's not one of VMTs locos, but SRR 630 has run the Belt Line, back when she was still ET&WNC 207. So if they ever wanted to run 630 out there, they surely could unless some of those curves have been seriously tightened...
Such a shame 611 wouldn't make it through some of the tighter curves, especially since NS curtailed their steam program seemingly moments after 611 steamed again for first time since 1994.

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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 270
Agreeing with SteamGuy and Reynolds on this one Virginian #4 is probably the most suitable locomotive in the museum's collection to traverse the Belt Line. It was built originally as an 0-8-0 to be used for switching duty at low speeds something to be noted given the branch's current track condition. Next to the 611 and 2156 it's the best restored steamer under cover and actually received its last shopping in 1963 following its purchase from the city of Princeton in 1960 by N&W. Compared to the other restored N&W 2-8-0, it virtually looks as if it could steam up right now given the boiler flues/tubing weren't over 60 years expired. I personally would support a operational restoration of the #4 given that it opens up more opportunities for future restorations especially regarding the VMT's own diesel fleet,

Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 203
It's certainly not my place to tell anybody in Roanoke what to do, or what their priorities should be, so my comments may not be worth the virtual "paper" they're written on. Traditionally, the Museum has had a pro-Roanoke bias. However, the Museum is the Virginia Museum of Transportation, so there is no reason to think their mission shouldn't include examples of equipment from other Virginia railroads, most notably the Southern and the Chesapeake and Ohio. This opens up the possibility that Southern 630, mentioned above, or C&O 2-8-0 701 (displayed in Covington) or C&O 4-6-0 377 at the B&O Museum could be added to the mix of engines that could be considered for use on the line. It is an open question whether these would be acquired by the Museum, or on extended loan. There are other potential candidates, of course, including diesels.

If I am not mistaken, the line passes through Wasena Park, which was the location of flooding when the Museum was located there many years ago. Is there any concern about future flooding?

I have always considered the current Museum site to be crowded and inconvenient, although I don't know the site well enough to be certain. Is there a possibility that the entire collection could eventually be moved to a better site along this line? I ask the question with the understanding that I might be making a naive, impractical suggestion. Please bear with me.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 571
Location: B'more Maryland
If they're going to run trips, it might behoove them to do what the B&O museum does: not using part of their collection.

So, a secondhand geep or SW something they can paint up an N&W or Sou inspired paint scheme with VMT on the side.

And, when it dies on them, they can just scrap it and get another with no regrets.

It's responsible collection management.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:25 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:33 am
Posts: 95
Location: Wash D.C.
In so far as the passenger car consist goes, The VMT purchased the three ex-RF&P Heavyweights from Jack Showalter's collection. They were purchased with the very specific intent of being used for these excursion trips over this line. Since they aren't exactly from N&W or VGN linnneage, are these cars considered 'part of the collection' or are they just disposable pieces?

-Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:33 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 203
I have few answers, but a few more questions:

* The 2014 photo of VGN 0-8-0 no. 4 shows an NKP GP in the background. The GP doesn't show up on the roster posted on the Museum's web site. It is not native to Virginia.
* I seem to recall that the Museum used to have at least one RF&P E8A unit, but it does not appear on the roster posted on the Museum's web site. This engine would be native to Virginia.
* The roster includes a W&LE NW2, not native to Virginia.
* The roster includes a Wabash E8A, not native to Virginia.
* While I don't see it listed on VMT's current roster, I believe the Museum has or had a Dereco/Erie-Lackawanna/Conrail SD45-2, not operationally native to Virginia.
* I was under the impression that the National Museum of Transport in Kirkwood, MO had an RF&P E8A, but I don't see it listed on that Museum's current roster.

All of this makes me wonder whether it might be a good idea to rationalize the collection and get Virginia items to VMT, and other items to more suitable locations. Obviously it's not my place to tell them what to do.

Tom
(edited with an addition)


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Tom Davidson wrote:
* The 2014 photo of VGN 0-8-0 no. 4 shows an NKP GP in the background. The GP doesn't show up on the roster posted on the Museum's web site. It is not native to Virginia.


The photo is from 1985 (pre-flood), not 2014.

The other stuff you're not seeing on the roster, I believe, are rolling stock that is stored off-site in need of restoration and rehabilitation. I recall the Wabash E9 being preserved as EMD's 10,000th locomotive; further, like B&O/C&O/WM at the B&O Railroad Museum, there were some "incestuous" relationships between the N&W, NKP, and Wabash (and heck, even with the EL and PRR, though I'm not seeing a complaint about the GG1).

Certainly, if you empowered a "grand junta" of top rail preservationists and scholars to rationalize and reallocate exhibits nationwide, there would likely be a piece or two both entering and leaving the VMT. But that's still a fantasy. And I have far less problem with a NKP GP9 being at VMT than I do a lot of other things here and there.

That being said, ideally if this "common carrier" does ever come to fruition, it would behoove the powers that be to purchase, or solicit a donation from NS of, a small-ish, expendable, maintainable locomotive for both freight and excursion duty--provided, of course, such an economical small loco still exists anymore (there's a reason MP15's brought 5-10 times more than B40-8's at the recent UP locomotive auction....).

And to expand the thinking a bit: There are a number of former B&O and C&O GP9's floating around here and there, and both roads has a significant presence in Virginia.........


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:36 am
Posts: 63
Local news coverage, with video..

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/train-e ... y/37279030

http://www.roanoke.com/business/news/ro ... a6fe5.html

http://wsls.com/2015/12/31/new-tourist- ... o-roanoke/

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May the spirit of the Norfolk & Western, and the Rio Grande, live forever!


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 923
Neat, have to love NS for their appreciation of their own heritage, I believe one of the VMT Wabash E units had its exterior rebuilt and painted gratis by NS at Altoona too for the streamliner thing at Spencer a few years back. I do think the CBS station transcribed one of the gentleman's words wrong though, he believes it will be a "boon" to the area, they don't want a steam engine (if one is used) to be a boom to the area.


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 Post subject: Re: NS considers donating Roanoke Belt Line to VMT
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:17 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Thanks Again NS! ^_^

I'm already seeing this as a Huge Economic Move for both VMT & City Of Roanoke.

Already liking this Roanoke & Southern idea/concept. This will give me another thing to while visiting Roanoke. I see both VMT & NRHS Roanoke as Co-Operators/Owners of this old belt line. Sorry 611, no belt line action for you just too big. Small steamers or diesels can and will operate here.

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