Catskill Mountain Railroad News - 2016

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

Quote:

The Transportation Improvement Program cited by Mr. Bonk; project listings are in a section labelled "UCTC 2014-2018 Highway Project Listings," covering 14 pages, starting on the 33rd page of this document (based on the PDF page count--the document itself does not have a total page number labeling, though individual sections have them):

http://ulstercountyny.gov/sites/default ... 202014.pdf

Perhaps as much as anything else, this says a lot about how well the trail crowd has gotten itself organized. I'm not saying we should get as much taxpayer support as the trail people have been able to get--but a bit of their ability to influence policy wouldn't hurt.

http://www.eserc.stonybrook.edu/cen514/ ... upply.html

some digging on my own, I am DLing a water quality report.

But heavy rains is a bigger culprit of water quality than a silly ole train.

The anti-railroad groups are just finding their arguements. My scans showed people could fish and swim in the reservoir.

Mr.Starr · **Joined:** Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:41 am **Posts:** 97

After reading all these comments on the CMRR -The Catskill Mountain Railroad- is now or is possibly finished.
Curious here, if csx had installed a switch to connect with or interchange The Catskill Mountain Railroad wouldn’t this help the CMRR receive the activity and revenue to help sustain The Catskill Mountain Railroad. My example here .. is the ARCADE and ATTICA Railroad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_an ... Railroad...

Note:
The ARA also runs steam excursion passenger trains from May to October on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Passengers can enjoy a 14-mile (23 km) ride from Arcade to Curriers, New York and back on restored 1920s era Boonton passenger coaches, and an open gondola, pulled by one of the historic steam or early diesel engines.

My opinion , I would chalk it up to those almost all involved of being frightened of almost everything especially the income and employment which this would generate for Kinston, NY and the surrounding area! This also includes the The CMRR , -yes both segments- and give the Catskill Mountain Railroad an opportunity to rebuild the unused segment and upgrade to be become more profitable than it had been ?

Curious , No cause for alarm just opinions, possibly thought(s) here.

Mr. Starr

cjvrr · **Posted:** Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:05 pm

This has been discussed before. There are no online customers of the CMRR. Nor really any potential for any. The switch to CSX was pulled 20 or more years ago and would cost hundreds of thousands to reinstall due to the geometry and need for PTC. CSX would not be the company to pay for this work, it would be CMRR or the County. In the end with no customer potential on the CMRR this is a non-starter. And CSX isn't going to allow excursion trains on their mainline.

In the end the County hired CMRR through the lease to rebuild a mile of track per year. It wasn't done. After 40 years of very limited use of the corridor the County feels it needs to go in a different direction. And as I have stated before I understand the loss to the railfans but the owner has every right to listen to it's taxpaying constituents and seek a return on their property, even if it means railbikes, a trail, or a very short train ride still operated by the CMRR. In actuality with the three different uses that have been approved for the corridor the County has a chance to make a very diverse and unique experience for any tourists.

Mr.Starr wrote:

After reading all these comments on the CMRR -The Catskill Mountain Railroad- is now or is possibly finished.
Curious here, if csx had installed a switch to connect with or interchange The Catskill Mountain Railroad wouldn’t this help the CMRR receive the activity and revenue to help sustain The Catskill Mountain Railroad. My example here ..

My opinion , I would chalk it up to those almost all involved of being frightened of almost everything especially the income and employment which this would generate for Kinston, NY and the surrounding area! This also includes the The CMRR , -yes both segments- and give the Catskill Mountain Railroad an opportunity to rebuild the unused segment and upgrade to be become more profitable than it had been ?

Curious , No cause for alarm just opinions, possibly thought(s) here.

Mr. Starr

joe6167 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:38 pm

One item that fails to receive attention is the fact that the line practically destroys itself every year, every time there is a hurricane or a major storm.

Was it reasonable to expect the CMRR to open one mile of track every year, when so much of their efforts were constantly being redirected to repairing major damage on sections of track already in service, instead of expanding the line?

Don't forget to take into account the hurdles that the authorities imposed on the process as well, from withholding the FEMA funds, to the huge expenditure of money on the various legal challenges, that could have been used for other things.

Maybe the "deck" was "stacked" to begin with for the CMRR? Maybe they never had a realistic chance of attaining that goal from the onset, without perhaps more sympathetic authorities.

That being said, what will happen with the new trail sections when they too start getting chewed up with every major weather event, and bridges start getting completely destroyed?

With the whole climate change phenomenon, severe weather may become the new norm.

philip.marshall · **Posted:** Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:01 pm

dinwitty wrote:

Too much scare politics. If you use any of this water you have to filter it anyways before use. Faygo uses water right from the Detroit river.

Actually, New York City drinking water from watersheds west of the Hudson River (including Ashokan) is delivered unfiltered, believe it or not. The NYC DEP has received a special waiver from the EPA because the water quality is considered so high, which is a point of considerable pride for the city. This is a big part of why they're so paranoid about the risk of spills or other pollution.

-Philip Marshall

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate13.pdf

Water report on the NYC 2013 water conditions.

All levels acceptable, and if the CMRR was operating next to the reservoir there is ZERO evidence it had any effect to the water quality. All the info I've seen shows more fear mongering propaganda.

http://ulstercountyny.gov/sites/default ... 202014.pdf

This has no water quality info, it is public propaganda, and it is rather biased.

They want to spend money on a trail, why...spend, the rails already exist, save your money. What do you do after a hurricane, you rebuild, whats the worry.

You can thank China for screwing the local production businesses, its the governments own fault and its happening again.

After seeing what I've seen the whole rail and trail issue is getting silly. They're making muck over nothing.
There is nothing wrong with the railroad, want a trail share it. The rails are there already, make it work.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

philip.marshall wrote:

dinwitty wrote:

Too much scare politics. If you use any of this water you have to filter it anyways before use. Faygo uses water right from the Detroit river.

Actually, New York City drinking water from watersheds west of the Hudson River (including Ashokan) is delivered unfiltered, believe it or not. The NYC DEP has received a special waiver from the EPA because the water quality is considered so high, which is a point of considerable pride for the city. This is a big part of why they're so paranoid about the risk of spills or other pollution.

-Philip Marshall

They should be more paranoid about gushing heavy rainfalls. People sitting at their desks being scared than understanding the truths.

Cameron Wolk · **Joined:** Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm **Posts:** 270

So they're afraid of a little tourist operation crossing the dike but back in the 70s they allowed this monstrosity to casually cross over (note the two men at the edge)? I think Hein and the DEC need to see this photo for themselves.

Ohh the hypocrisy, it burns my eyes

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1010

Cameron Wolk wrote:

I think Hein and the DEC need to see this photo for themselves.

Again, Mr. Hein is the Executive of Ulster County, the DEC is the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, while the reservoir is owned by the New York City Department of Environmental Protection.

The post J3a-614 made on Wed May 25, 2016 12:29 am is really informative -- I wish more posters would read it.

Cameron Wolk · **Joined:** Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm **Posts:** 270

Chris Webster wrote:

Cameron Wolk wrote:

I think Hein and the DEC need to see this photo for themselves.

Again, Mr. Hein is the Executive of Ulster County, the DEC is the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, while the reservoir is owned by the New York City Department of Environmental Protection.

The post J3a-614 made on Wed May 25, 2016 12:29 am is really informative -- I wish more posters would read it.

My mistake then. J3a poses a good point but the bottom line is that it's absolutely ridiculous for the state department to not take into account that for decades they allowed the above to run unaccounted for with no problems and only now they decide to whine at the last second. I'm going to tell you something, what's going to stop a guy on this proposed trail from casually walking off the pavement and intentionally contaminating the reservoir with chemical X. Is there going to be a fence along the dike, a security patrol perhaps, when sh**t hits the fan who is going to take the blame Hein or somehow the CMRR, that's what troubles me Webster?

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1329

Friday, June 17th

John Prestopino weed-wacked in the Phoenicia yard.

Saturday, June 18th

A joint CMRR/ESRM crew worked on the new ESRM siding in Phoenicia. CMRR members included Tom Whyte, Jeff Otto, Ed Winstanley and Al Johnson.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=231152

Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

Chris Webster wrote:

Cameron Wolk wrote:

I think Hein and the DEC need to see this photo for themselves.

Again, Mr. Hein is the Executive of Ulster County, the DEC is the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, while the reservoir is owned by the New York City Department of Environmental Protection.

The post J3a-614 made on Wed May 25, 2016 12:29 am is really informative -- I wish more posters would read it.

My earlier post about ideas how to deal with issues considered the 911 attacks and the sensitivity behind it, there is an emotional reaction to it and it has embellished that into our politics. Picking up a couple of casual walkers along the waterway and arresting them is to me way overkill to the paranoia. Thats why my post they have a controlled entry to the waterway someone posted to take registrations so they know who's there.
I recall going to a CERA meeting in Chicago and the Hotel wanted sign in registrations, I'm fine with that if there are emergencies you have a record. I want them to be able to make the line useful in whatever way they can or it just stagnates, you may need it to do equipment moves between the operating segments as it stands now. If they tear out the rails you have to truck equipment around and CMRR is sure going to have havoc with that concept and guess who they would have to make pay those moves, and they arn't cheap. You have to keep the rails in.

Again if they are so concerned about a locomotive falling over spilling oil or whatever you change your motive power to electric, maybe get the Trolley museum near there has a spare car to use for line. Or get a battery powered trolley or any other ideas flying out there.

In the end I feel they are at ultimate fear about their water safety and want nothing around, but there has to be some leniency to all these issues.
But everything I have looked at and ideas presented should end fears and give confidence you can run some kind of train and be secure with the water. Its not impossible.

And there are fish in the water and other life, so this is your drinking water....and your worried about people walking beside it...

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:46 am

dinwitty wrote:

Chris Webster wrote:

Cameron Wolk wrote:

I think Hein and the DEC need to see this photo for themselves.

Again, Mr. Hein is the Executive of Ulster County, the DEC is the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, while the reservoir is owned by the New York City Department of Environmental Protection.

The post J3a-614 made on Wed May 25, 2016 12:29 am is really informative -- I wish more posters would read it.

My earlier post about ideas how to deal with issues considered the 911 attacks and the sensitivity behind it, there is an emotional reaction to it and it has embellished that into our politics. Picking up a couple of casual walkers along the waterway and arresting them is to me way overkill to the paranoia. Thats why my post they have a controlled entry to the waterway someone posted to take registrations so they know who's there.
I recall going to a CERA meeting in Chicago and the Hotel wanted sign in registrations, I'm fine with that if there are emergencies you have a record. I want them to be able to make the line useful in whatever way they can or it just stagnates, you may need it to do equipment moves between the operating segments as it stands now. If they tear out the rails you have to truck equipment around and CMRR is sure going to have havoc with that concept and guess who they would have to make pay those moves, and they arn't cheap. You have to keep the rails in.

Again if they are so concerned about a locomotive falling over spilling oil or whatever you change your motive power to electric, maybe get the Trolley museum near there has a spare car to use for line. Or get a battery powered trolley or any other ideas flying out there.

In the end I feel they are at ultimate fear about their water safety and want nothing around, but there has to be some leniency to all these issues.
But everything I have looked at and ideas presented should end fears and give confidence you can run some kind of train and be secure with the water. Its not impossible.

And there are fish in the water and other life, so this is your drinking water....and your worried about people walking beside it...

In view of the above post, this press release, from Friends of the Catskill Mountain Rail Trail (the trail group that wants the Catskill Mountain Railroad gone), is worth reading:

Quote:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Friends of Catskill Mtn Rail Trail Statement

Re: Ulster County Selects Rail Operators for the U&D

FRIENDS OF THE CATSKILL MOUNTAIN RAIL TRAIL·FRIDAY, JUNE 17, 2016

Friday, June 17th, 2016

For Immediate Release

ULSTER COUNTY SELECTS RAIL OPERATORS FOR THE ULSTER & DELAWARE CORRIDOR.

As part of the “Compromise Policy for Rails & Trails” the decision is the result of a request for proposal (RFP) process that was initiated in April of 2016.

Kingston, NY - Ulster County has announced two new rail operators for the Ulster & Delaware Corridor, fulfilling the “compromise policy” initially proposed by County Executive Mike Hein, and extended and unanimously adopted by the County Legislature for the corridor six months ago. The decision is the result of a request for proposal (RFP) process initiated by the county in April of 2016.

Contingent upon legislative approvals, the Friends of the Catskill Mountain Rail Trail (FOCMRT) welcome the return of the Catskill Mountain Railroad Company(CMRR), under specific new terms, to the Kingston segment of the corridor, and as well the new addition of Rail Explorers, a rail biking and tourism operator, to the Western section of the corridor in Boiceville, Mount Tremper, and Phoenicia.

Preserving CMRR’s operations from Kingston to West Hurley provides the tourism railroad the location in Kingston on extended track (9 miles round-trip) that CMRR indicated was needed to ensure future success. Adding the new, active and experiential tourism mode of human-powered rail bicycles, opens up the potential for significantly increased rail use of western segments of the corridor, with more job creation and direct and indirect economic potential, due to a proposed 7-day per week schedule, and strong marketing connections already established in the New York Metropolitan region.

“While we have yet to learn all the details of the County’s decision, we look forward to exploring innovative forms of collaboration with both the CMRR & Rail Explorers organizations”, said Kevin Smith, Co-Chair of the FOCMRT. “We anticipate working to identify meaningful ways to connect and coordinate rail and trail activities through events, programs and interpretation. Locals and visitors alike will soon have multiple ways they can enjoy the county-owned U&D, and ultimately to experience the rich history and the abundant natural resources along the entirety of the fully restored historic corridor from the Midtown Kingston to the Ashokan Reservoir and along the Esopus Creek all the way to Highmount.”

Kathy Nolan, FOCMRT’s other Co-Chair, agreed: “Rail Explorers brings a creative, innovative approach to rail preservation with a much lighter impact on the environment than heavy, diesel or coal-powered trains, while also encouraging outdoor exercise, with all its attendant health benefits.” “These rail operations,” she states, “coupled with expanded multi-purpose trail opportunities, augment the efforts of many groups currently working in the Route 28 Corridor to build a forward-looking, sustainable economy, based on a recognition that forest preserve and watershed lands are a cherished asset to be enjoyed by residents and gladly shared with visitors.”

The Friends of the Catskill Mountain Rail Trail urge the public, including both trail and rail supporters, to give this exciting new constellation of rail and trail offerings every chance of success, as the County forges ahead in implementing County Policy to fully restore and utilize the U&D Corridor.

#supportthecompromise

Kathy Nolan & Kevin Smith
Co-Chairs, Friends of the Catskill Mountain Rail Trail

Contact: Kevin D. Smith (845) 481-0068
Woodstock Land Conservancy
845-481-0068
kevindsmith.wlc@gmail.com

Of particular interest is this segment:

Quote:

Kathy Nolan, FOCMRT’s other Co-Chair, agreed: “Rail Explorers brings a creative, innovative approach to rail preservation with a much lighter impact on the environment than heavy, diesel or coal-powered trains , while also encouraging outdoor exercise, with all its attendant health benefits.” “These rail operations,” she states, “coupled with expanded multi-purpose trail opportunities, augment the efforts of many groups currently working in the Route 28 Corridor to build a forward-looking, sustainable economy, based on a recognition that forest preserve and watershed lands are a cherished asset to be enjoyed by residents and gladly shared with visitors.”

(emphasis added)

How much of the "fear and loathing" and even hatred we are facing comes from people like this?

The link to this group's Facebook site for reference:

https://www.facebook.com/FriendsOfTheCa ... l/?fref=ts

cjvrr · **Posted:** Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:59 am

dinwitty wrote:

If they tear out the rails you have to truck equipment around and CMRR is sure going to have havoc with that concept and guess who they would have to make pay those moves, and they arn't cheap. You have to keep the rails in.

I do not think the CMRR was ever able to move equipment between the operating segments. At least in the last 25 years equipment has always been trucked to the railroad and trucked between the segments. This goes for everything from a locomotive to a tie inserter.

joe6167 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:12 am

cjvrr wrote:

dinwitty wrote:

If they tear out the rails you have to truck equipment around and CMRR is sure going to have havoc with that concept and guess who they would have to make pay those moves, and they arn't cheap. You have to keep the rails in.

I do not think the CMRR was ever able to move equipment between the operating segments. At least in the last 25 years equipment has always been trucked to the railroad and trucked between the segments. This goes for everything from a locomotive to a tie inserter.

I believe the ex-navy crane and some other equipment IS stored on that segment of the line in Shokan.

Catskill Mountain Railroad News - 2016

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