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 Post subject: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:55 pm
Posts: 5
Does anyone know why this locomotive couldn't be returned to service. (Mechanically speaking). I heard it had some kind of sabotage in the past.


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
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Location: Roanoke Va.
Money

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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:00 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 877
Location: NJ
Perfect short answer! The long version, of course, is that with enough money you can fix any locomotve.


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:39 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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money does some things, the ole armstrong does the rest


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:22 pm
Posts: 219
Actually money is not the problem, the lack of money is the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Minneapolis, MN
When folks ask if this or that locomotive can be restored to service, the answer is almost always "YES", given enough money. Part 230 of the FRA regulations has leveled the playing field enormously when it comes to steam restoration.

It is nearly the same cost to bring a park locomotive (depending on condition) back to operation as it is to do a 1472 day inspection on a locomotive that is currently in service. The economics may change as locomotives come up for their SECOND 1472 day inspection since almost all of the very heavy and expensive boiler repairs were done the first time around.

The REAL question regarding steam restoration to operation is now WHERE to operate and where to find a train to pull. Given the costs, a place to operate is the single most important factor to be considered.


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 258
hamster wrote:
When folks ask if this or that locomotive can be restored to service, the answer is almost always "YES", given enough money. Part 230 of the FRA regulations has leveled the playing field enormously when it comes to steam restoration.

It is nearly the same cost to bring a park locomotive (depending on condition) back to operation as it is to do a 1472 day inspection on a locomotive that is currently in service. The economics may change as locomotives come up for their SECOND 1472 day inspection since almost all of the very heavy and expensive boiler repairs were done the first time around.

The REAL question regarding steam restoration to operation is now WHERE to operate and where to find a train to pull. Given the costs, a place to operate is the single most important factor to be considered.


CFR title 49 part 230 doesn't apply to diesels. I believe the primary section of relevance would be CFR Title 49 part 229. Since the diesel locomotive in question (Baldwin AS416) is already at a place that uses diesels, a place to run it is not a dilemma. The problem would be any mechanical issues and parts.

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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:24 am
Posts: 289
Location: H2O-town, CT
I think the overall question was does anyone know specifically what problems the loco has, not the money factor. What is know that has to be fixed before it can operate again?

There could easily be other surprises with something that has sat dormant so long but that would have to be dealt with as they are discovered.

I've seen pics of this unit many times and it has a very nice cosmetic restoration done on it. When was the last time it actually operated?


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5686
Location: southeastern USA
A very long, long time ago I was responsible for its paint job.......with a team of volunteers. The NS bay window caboose was also done at the same time. From the dim recesses of memory I recall that it was supposed to have been converted to a radio controlled unit by Peabody Coal, and the RC stuff was ripped out before it was acquired back in the very early days of the museum development. So, I think that for a variety of reasons it wasn't made to operate but whether or not the RC alteration that was never reversed was one of them or just an excuse......hard to know. There were two volunteer groups back then (mid 1980s). One were retired Southern Railway men who were the people who actually made the running stuff run, the other were guys with real jobs who volunteered on weekends. That was my group - and we did a lot of painting, structural repairs, etc. for cosmetic restoration primarily. The weekday bunch didn't like Baldwins, and were EMD guys through and through, so even if it only needed an oil change and batteries, they may not have had the interest. There was some serious vandalism of the cab instrumentation and wiring, but we all know that can be fixed pretty easily. It was a very different time at that place back then.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:55 pm
Posts: 5
Thanks for the replies from everyone. Yes I know money is always the first thing that is needed for any preservation.


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:47 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:04 am
Posts: 39
Location: Not Sure
When I lived in NC and was going down on the weekends to work on stuff, myself and another guy (Can't remember his name) wanted take a look and see if it could be done. NCTM said it could not be done as it was owned by the State and Dept of A&H would not let the museum play with the NS engine or the cars from NS. We took the hint and let it go but the reasons around why it didn't run ranged from sand in the base to a bad bearing. To tell you the truth, until you get in the oil engine and see if you can even bar her over you will never know. It has been stored inside and has been well cared for so based what Dave said, it might only need a pre-lube and a jump and off to the races you go. But with all that said, if you can look it over in the shop, check it real good to be sure it was not damaged.

JJ-


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:09 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 270
I'm not one to bring up an old thread but has there been any new developments as to a operational restoration of the 1616? I'm aware the unit has "mechanical problems" regarding the interface with the old RC system used by Peabody but is that really it maybe an oil change and new batteries. Could any NCTM member further confirm its condition perhaps express any interest in restoring the beauty,

Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:55 pm
Posts: 5
The NS #1616 is a State artifact. Basically that limits what can be done to it. Painting it is about all that can be done.


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 270
Southern J Class wrote:
The NS #1616 is a State artifact. Basically that limits what can be done to it. Painting it is about all that can be done.


Well, in that case have you or the museum ever opened talks with the state regarding a donation of the unit or potential purchase? I highly doubt the state would want anything to do with another locomotive especially considering their relation with Amtrak so maybe it'd be better with the NCTM's care. Perhaps Southern you and your colleagues in Spencer could forge out a suitable agreement with Raleigh regarding an operational reconditioning of some sort. You'd be responsible for the maintenance and daily operation of 1616 while they'd still hold complete ownership and would be given full re-acquisition rights say you were ever to lose interest in the locomotive. Give it a shot and I guarantee it'll work,

Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: Norfolk Southern Baldwin #1616
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:49 pm
Posts: 11
I'm really glad that people have the gall to tell other museums what to do with their artifacts. Don't you think they have enough projects to restore and engines to keep running to concern themselves with another project? You got your answer that its not happening, so move on. Then again what should I expect from a person who thinks that a Baldwin can be used to keep an FM running.....


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