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 Post subject: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 am
Posts: 540
Location: NE PA
FRA has posted a compliance guide on their website
https://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/details/L16342#p1_z5_gD_ktraining_lCM

A pdf file of the guide is attached.

Mike Tillger


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TQO Part 243 Interim Compliance Guide Master 04132015.pdf [810.23 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:36 pm
Posts: 198
So a tourist railroad that is not connected to the outside system and has no employees is exempt from this?

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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
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Location: Faulkland, Delaware
Thanks for sharing this Mike.

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Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:11 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2018
The training matrix is on numbered page 78 of 101 (79 on the download).

Everyone who is going to be performing any work or providing technical assistance on a railroad property that is subject to these training requirements needs to read and understand them. There are severe fines for noncompliance as well as for failure to keep accurate records. If you are subject to these regulations, don't wait until the last minute and then expect help to be immediately available. A lot of people are going to be busy preparing and presenting training programs.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
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From attending a couple meetings recently of groups that own, operate and maintain their own equipment, there seems to be very little awareness of the approaching deadlines for these regulations in the preservation community.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:05 am
Posts: 123
Location: Glen Ellyn, IL
There's been a summary of this rule on the ATRRM website since December, 2014. The most recent update of this summary (8/18/2015) is attached. Briefly:

1. The rule only applies to "general system" tourist railroads (typically, tourist roads which haul freight or operate over another railroad which hauls freight). Non-general system tourist roads are not subject to the rule.

2. The rule technically became "effective" 1/6/2015. But the compliance deadline for railroads which less than 400,000 annual employee work hours (which probably includes all tourist railroads which are subject to the rule) is January 1, 2019


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Reg Action Summary - Training FR.doc [31 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 am
Posts: 540
Location: NE PA
Latest issue, May 2016, Part 243 Compliance Guide for those of us affected by this rule can be found here: http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/details/L17469#p1_z5_gD_lCM. I was hoping ATTRRM would be a leader and perhaps establish a model program for those who are affected by this regulation, much the way ASLRRA did with the engineer's and conductor's certification and the environmental compliance issues a few years back.

Mike Tillger


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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
Short Line (ASLRRA) and a number of others of us are fighting this. Once we lose, ASLRRA will establish a model program.

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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
PCook wrote:
From attending a couple meetings recently of groups that own, operate and maintain their own equipment, there seems to be very little awareness of the approaching deadlines for these regulations in the preservation community.


That can be a tough sell. It's true the industry has careful experts who read the rules, confer with other experts, and consider all the angles. Unfortunately it also has rulebook-waving jackasses with an opinion on everything and no research to back it up, because facts are not his thing, bullying his way into being respected is. It can be hard for decision-makers to tell these two apart.

Where FRA is concerned, it's pretty much a cliche that the rulebook-waver assumes the entire FRA rulebook applies to a tourist railway, which is wrong. Managers with experience have heard it all before, and they also tend to have a convivial working relationship with their FRA man, and confuse "FRA man turning a blind eye" with "actually exempt" - which leads to a belief that they can convince their FRA man to turn his head. So it's hard for the expert to get traction when something actually is required.

And then there's the E.O. authority which means even when you're exempt, you're not quite. It's very confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:05 am
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Location: Glen Ellyn, IL
S. Weaver wrote:
Short Line (ASLRRA) and a number of others of us are fighting this. Once we lose, ASLRRA will establish a model program.


ASLRRA already "lost". See FRA's June 2015 decison denying ASLRRA's petition for reconsideration (attached).


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TRAINING - FRA denial of reconsideration 6-1-15.pdf [1.25 MiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
Robert Opal wrote:
S. Weaver wrote:
Short Line (ASLRRA) and a number of others of us are fighting this. Once we lose, ASLRRA will establish a model program.


ASLRRA already "lost". See FRA's June 2015 decison denying ASLRRA's petition for reconsideration (attached).


It's on appeal in district court.

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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 570
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
S. Weaver wrote:
Robert Opal wrote:
S. Weaver wrote:
Short Line (ASLRRA) and a number of others of us are fighting this. Once we lose, ASLRRA will establish a model program.
ASLRRA already "lost". See FRA's June 2015 decison denying ASLRRA's petition for reconsideration (attached).
It's on appeal in district court.

Citation?
Status?

By 'district court' I am assuming that you mean the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia? Why would it be heard there instead of the United States Court of Appeals for District of Columbia Circuit which is the normal appellate panel for such matters and where it is in fact docketed?
American Short Line and Regional Railroad Association, Petitioner
v.
Federal Railroad Administration; United States Department of Transportation, Respondents
07/27/2015 PETITION FOR REVIEW CASE docketed. [15-1240]


It has been in abeyance for settlement discussions since October. The most recent filing dated April 11th simply states that discussions are on going.

My advice to anyone covered by the regulation in question is not to sit around waiting for a decision but to start thinking now about how you are going to comply with some form of the reg.

GME


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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
Trainlawyer wrote:
Citation?
Status?

By 'district court' I am assuming that you mean the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia? Why would it be heard there instead of the United States Court of Appeals for District of Columbia Circuit which is the normal appellate panel for such matters and where it is in fact docketed?
American Short Line and Regional Railroad Association, Petitioner
v.
Federal Railroad Administration; United States Department of Transportation, Respondents
07/27/2015 PETITION FOR REVIEW CASE docketed. [15-1240]


It has been in abeyance for settlement discussions since October. The most recent filing dated April 11th simply states that discussions are on going.

Whatever. It's on appeal.

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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:37 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
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Location: Chicago USA
http://www.fuzzymemories.tv/?c=3003

America's getting into training
Training the Amtrak way!


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 Post subject: Re: Part 243 New Regulation regarding training
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 570
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
The fact that it has been in abeyance for over eight months suggests that neither party really wants the judge to make a decision and it will be settled. If that is the case major portions will probably stand. This is not a winner take all game. What the Court is reviewing is Ms Feinberg's Denial on Reconsideration, not the regulation itself.

Ill say it again. Be prepared to comply.

GME


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