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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
jasonsobczynski wrote:
There are/were examples of removing all or some T-circulators, in some cases they were replaced with transverse arch tubes. I am unaware of locomotives having their syphons removed save few which were not originally equipped.
While circulators did pretty much just that.... circulate.... syphons (as lincolnpenn mentioned) increased a locomotives heating surface. Locomotives which were built with syphons had that heating surface included into the calculations for the boilers steaming capacity. Were one to remove OEM syphons from a locomotive it would leave a boiler less able to generate a sufficient amount of steam (or at the least increase the difficulty and stress associated in doing so).

Cheers, Jason

Stumbled on to this interesting view of No 2760's firebox side (youtube, m611martin). Looks like a combination of washout plugs for circulators (top row) and then some sort of drafting device (bottom row).
Attachment:
2760_FB.JPG
2760_FB.JPG [ 47.36 KiB | Viewed 2824 times ]

The C&O had 90 of these so were some built w circulators v syphons?


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 47
TimReynolds wrote:
Stumbled on to this interesting view of No 2760's firebox side (youtube, m611martin). Looks like a combination of washout plugs for circulators (top row) and then some sort of drafting device (bottom row).
Attachment:
The attachment 2760_FB.JPG is no longer available

The C&O had 90 of these so were some built w circulators v syphons?


The original ALCO order (2700-2739) all originally had syphons. The Lima order (2740-2759) had circulators but I don't know about the last ALCO order.

Here's a look at 2756's firebox and circulator set up


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2756 circulators.jpg
2756 circulators.jpg [ 14.9 KiB | Viewed 2493 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:51 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 895
Quote:
> I am unaware of locomotives having their syphons removed save few which were not originally equipped.


One of Lloyd Stagner's articles in Trains in the mid-Eighties mentioned that some ATSF engines had syphons replaced with circulators, if I recall correctly. A syphon was a big, relatively dark source of flame quench in an oilburner firebox, compared to security circulators, wasn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:10 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3030
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Kelly Anderson wrote:
J3a-614 wrote:
...a tremendous appreciation for the men you read about on the NYC who would go into the firebox of a Niagara after the fire was dropped but with the engine still in steam to tighten staybolts. . .good Lord, how did they do it in the space and the heat, with the firebox beginning to leak and spray water and steam at them due to contractions and thermal stress?

An engineer here named Jack Haines had worked on the "hot gang" at Harrisburg on the PRR doing just that. One of his stories was about getting ready to climb into the firebox of an M1 that had just had its fire dumped so they could investigate a leak. It turned out that the leak was from a superheater flue that failed catastrophically (perhaps due to a failed safe end weld?) just as he was preparing to climb in, opening a 4-1/2" diameter leak directly into the firebox. The fire door was open, as were the coal gates in the tender. Jack said that every lump of coal in the tender was blown out onto the track behind.


A story I can easily believe, and I bet the man got out of that cab as fast as he could!

I have to wonder if the engine was an M1, though. That sort of thing suggests an engine with a front end throttle, in which the superheater is always full of steam. As I recall the Ms had dome throttles, which would suggest the superheater should have been empty.

Of course, I could be full of hooey. . .any Pennsy fans care to chime in?


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:21 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1235
Location: Strasburg, PA
J3a-614 wrote:

A story I can easily believe, and I bet the man got out of that cab as fast as he could!

I have to wonder if the engine was an M1, though. That sort of thing suggests an engine with a front end throttle, in which the superheater is always full of steam. As I recall the Ms had dome throttles, which would suggest the superheater should have been empty.

Of course, I could be full of hooey. . .any Pennsy fans care to chime in?

The failure was of a superheater flue, not a superheater unit.

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4993
It's been nearly a year since any comments about Kentucky Steam Heritage and their efforts in restoring Kanawha 2716. I was on their site today and was surprised to see that there was some work done on 2716 toward making her Louisville & Nashville 2-8-4 #1992. I am not quite sure if the work shown was actually done (it appears it was) or whether this was photo manipulation. There is one photo of L&N 1992 which is surely a photo of a genuine L&N M1 class Berkshire, with renumbering as 1992. I've seen no other photos, so perhaps a comment from someone connected with the group could advise.

BTW, I have nothing against changing 2716 into L&N 1992, although (as pointed out on their website) there are some major differences between C&O and L&N 2-8-4's. At least they're being honest by giving her the next number up in the series, rather than as some previous "imitations" have done. What was really interesting on their website was the story about how the very last L&N Berk (#1991) was supposed to have been the very last Lima steamer delivered. A manufacturing glitch with NKP 779, forced Lima to send the 1991 out two days earlier than 779. Interesting story (if true) and I'll let others confirm it. An L&N 1992 might actually bring in some local funding for the group.

The main thing is that the group continues work on 2716, which is great to hear.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 47
Les. Thanks for upping this thread.

We have done a good amount of work to the engine, mainly involving inspecting and deciding if it's indeed smart to go ahead with a full mechanical rebuild. So far, there's really nothing out of the ordinary that we didn't expect.

We've not kicked off an official fundraising campaign yet, but did wind up receiving over 20k in donations to get the ball rolling. This spring we will initiate a formal fundraising campaign for moving the engine.

The firebox ultrasound has been completed, and there is some sidesheet and doorsheet replacement in our future, but nothing out of the ordinary. Wire wheel-ing the firebox interior, gridding and then ultrasonic testing comprised the bulk of the work that we did this summer. We've moved the engine several times with the help of KRM crews and inspected all the bearings. We also stripped years of paint off of the rods and inspected them. The big focus has been the tender. The tank is getting blasted and coated and we are going to replace a couple of thin spots on the bunker slope sheet. The next step is to convert the tender to roller bearings.

We met with Tom Stephens, former CMO of the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Soceity, and he generously donated the old SRR boiler tube pilot and headlight bracket that were used by Mr. Purdie and crew during the engine's brief career on the Southern.

We partnered with Ron Flanary and KRM to cosmetically alter the engine to look like an L&N "Big Emma" this fall to coincide with the L&N Historical Society Convention that was held in this part of the state. This involved removing the C&O pilot and putting the old "Purdie Pilot" back on, as well as some other cheaply-produced accouterments. Railroad purists were quick to point out the differences in the two classes of engines (most notably the valve gear), but all in attendance at the convention could feel the spirit of "Big Emma" return. It was surreal.

Mr. Flanary has written a nice piece for both Railfan and Railroad and Trains Magazine about the event.

Our 50 or so volunteers will be back at work in March.

We did several live videos of our work sessions, and have other content on our facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/co2716/

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