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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Greenwich, NY
Sadly there is some blame to be placed on the current RR mgmt in this whole mess. For years....yes, YEARS, they sat back and didn't confront the pure BS that was freely flowing from such names as Goodwin, Beamish, Thompson, Keet, Rolf, McCulley, Frenette, etc....all of the usual ARTA clan. The ARTA cronies declared open warfare on anyone who was anything remotely pro-rail, and spent all of their time spreading falsehoods and pure bunk against the corridor and the ASRR itself. And what did the ASRR do for a long time while all this was happening?

Nothing.

Tony Goodwin is a prime example. There are way too many times to mention when he would post up long winded write-ups that were either bloated against the RR or just plain out and out wrong, and he would be confronted on them and debunked. He would then shut up for a bit, only to come back a few weeks later and repeat the process. If I wanted to, I could find links to some of the 'debunks' if I wanted to, but it's just not worth it. Even up until a few weeks ago, Goodwin was quote on a Facebook posting as saying "Don't make stuff up, it doesn't help the debate." A more irony-laden comment considering the source has never been spoken.

When all is said and done, the ARTA group had the right friends in the right places with the right "numbers". It makes no difference how off they were or how illegal their whole scheme was (yes, the RR *won* in court....which now seems like a pointless bit of info.) See the picture attached here? Posted by one ARTA member, featuring another posing with a "friend" who just happens to be The Gov. Funny how he wasn't captioned. At one time, Scott Thompson was confronted with the fact that this picture existed, saying that "[He] would LOVE to see that", implying that I was making it up. A picture is worth a thousand words....

And all of that time only up until the last year or so, the ASRR shunned the battle and kept quiet and didn't defend itself.

It didn't have to happen this way.......but it did.

And to bring us into current times, NY State is financially broke, especially after the Covid issues. Can anyone figure out how the State is going to legitimize building this trail?


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:26 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 230
They'll justify it somehow, since the man behind the entire project to get the rails lifted is a major campaign donor for the current administration.

What will be interesting is the long speculated phase 2, ending it as a travel corridor entirely in order to get people out of his woods, after duping trail advocates, local communities, and snowmobilers to support the initial campaign to get the rails removed.

I don't think it will happen overnight, but I foresee drama in 10-15 years if the man is still kicking with a campaign portraying this trail as a violation of various protections to the Adirondacks and a push to return it to nature.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:58 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Greenwich, NY
Another recent example of the pure venom and hatred coming from ARTA, in this case long-time and well-known BS artist and snowmobile club leader Jim McCulley.

This (again) is the kind of attack that the RR has had to deal with for YEARS, and they did nothing against it.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 883
Location: New Franklin, OH
Interesting. B&E to get those photos? Trespassing? And then you post it on Facebook? Interesting....

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:14 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Greenwich, NY
Apparently, with seemingly no fanfare whatsoever, the Adirondack Scenic Railroad has changed their name and logo on their Facebook page to drop the word 'scenic' from their title.

I'm kinda shaking my head at this one...


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:38 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
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Location: At large
This has to be hands down the stupidest marketing decision in the railroad's history. Why take the name "Scenic" out of the name of a scenic railroad? Now it just sounds generic. Maybe the powers-that-be figure that since they will never reach the High Peaks region that they can't call themselves "scenic" anymore. 26 years of brand building out the window over "simplicity". You want to change the logo? Fine. Logos change all the time. The new one isn't as good as the old one but it isn't bad either. But changing the name is just plain stupid.

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Last edited by traingeek8223 on Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 268
I'm wondering if there's not some campaign finance issues for the governor here....
Did those guys individually donate or as a group, etc....did they lie about it,etc?...
Nothing would turn the tables quicker than a scandal the gov wants hide...


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:57 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Greenwich, NY
Apparently, based on the ASRR Facebook pages, their page for the "Adirondack Railbike Adventures" has now been changed to the "Adirondack SCENIC Railbike Adventures". Seriously. You can't make this up.

I guess we now see where their priorities are.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
Some summertime news from one of the communities that advocated the railroad's destruction:
Quote:
SARANAC LAKE — Racist graffiti found on a railroad trestle bridge in town Friday has been covered up by a village resident and village police are investigating the source of the spray-paint slurs.

The bridge, which spans the Saranac River between Pine Street and Woodruff Street had been defaced with slurs, expletives and the racist phrase, “Go back to Africa.”

Aziz Rashid, who saw and reported the graffiti, said he was surprised, sad and angry when he came across it while walking the trestle bridge with his brother around noon on Friday. He said he walks that area regularly and had not previously seen the writing.

“I was pretty angry. There’s a lot of kids I love that walk that bridge,” Rashid said.
and
Quote:
Rashid said he painted over the graffiti with black paint. He also cut out a strip of house wrap the snowmobile club was using to preserve their plywood cover over the railroad ties, which was painted with slurs on it targeting the Black Lives Matter movement. He said it is currently sitting in his dumpster.
Link to the full story in June 29, 2020 Adirondack Daily Enterprise: Racist graffiti found in Saranac Lake - Police are investigating

And a second article:
Quote:
SARANAC LAKE — The director of the Adirondack Diversity Initiative is packing her belongings and moving out of this village, saying she hasn’t felt safe living here as a Black person since racist graffiti was found spray-painted on a railroad bridge a week-and-a-half ago.

The other reason Nicky Hylton-Patterson is moving out, she said, is that the mayor and the director of the Saranac Lake Area Chamber of Commerce did not issue statements condemning the graffiti.
and
Quote:
As a runner, she said, she ran five mornings a week right past the railroad bridge over the Saranac River that someone defaced with slurs, expletives and the racist phrase, “Go back to Africa.”

“I know that that was meant for me,” she said.

“It is a threat to my life and my safety and my peace of mind.”

She said it was also a threat to the village’s other Black residents. “There just aren’t that many of us,” she said. Saranac Lake’s year-round population is roughly 95% white, according to past census data.

Link to the full article in the July 8, 2020 Adirondack Daily Enterprise:
Diversity leader moving out of Saranac Lake - ‘It’s not safe for me to live in Saranac Lake right now’


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
Also of interest are these results from the NY State Dept. of Transportation's July 23, 2020 Construction Contracting Letting (Bid Openings)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PIN S937.65, Adirondack Railroad Restoration: Approximately 85 Miles Along Remsen-Lake Placid Corridor:
$19,138,163.46 - TARTAGLIA RAILROAD SERVICES
$19,829,035.47 - RJ CORMAN RAILROAD SERVICES
$22,731,310.00 - RAILWORKS TRACK SYSTEMS INC
$24,299,561.25 - FRONTIER RAILROAD SERVICES
$27,568,275.68 - HARRISON & BURROWES AND WESSON GROUP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PIN S93767, Removal of Existing RR Track from Tupper Lake to Lake Placid in Remsen to Lake Placid Travel Corridor in the Towns of Lake Placid, Saranac Lake & Tupper Lake:
$ 1,878,061.40 - NATIONAL SALVAGE & SERVICE COR
$ 3,087,484.54 - A&K RAILROAD MATERIALS, INC
$ 3,438,000.00 - REALE CONSTRUCTION CO INC
$ 8,560,709.99 - RAILWORKS TRACK SERVICES
$11,566,411.35 - LUCK BROTHERS INC
$15,285,281.00 - TJ FIACCO CONSTRUCTION LLC
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The section being scrapped (Tucker Lake to Lake Placid) is 34 miles long.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:31 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1386
[quote"]PIN S93767, Removal of Existing RR Track from Tupper Lake to Lake Placid in Remsen to Lake Placid Travel Corridor in the Towns of Lake Placid, Saranac Lake & Tupper Lake:
$ 1,878,061.40 - NATIONAL SALVAGE & SERVICE COR
$ 3,087,484.54 - A&K RAILROAD MATERIALS, INC
$ 3,438,000.00 - REALE CONSTRUCTION CO INC
$ 8,560,709.99 - RAILWORKS TRACK SERVICES
$11,566,411.35 - LUCK BROTHERS INC
$15,285,281.00 - TJ FIACCO CONSTRUCTION LLC"[/quote]

Is that 'net' of the big savings from 'selling the recovered track materials' that ARTA has been touting for so long as 'the trail paying for itself'?

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:59 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 360
Location: NJ
Seems the bid is simply worded track removal, not trail construction. Will the trail construction be a separate bid?

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 155
Location: Pittsburgh
Quote:
Is that 'net' of the big savings from 'selling the recovered track materials' that ARTA has been touting for so long as 'the trail paying for itself'?

Quote:
Seems the bid is simply worded track removal, not trail construction. Will the trail construction be a separate bid?

Both good questions. A copy of the actual bid document might help answer them, but I don't see how to download that from the NYSDOT website. Maybe somebody here already did that and could share them here.

On the surface of it, the low bid works out to about $10.50 per track foot (I presume this line is 99% single track). I'd expect the scrapper gets all of the rail, OTM, and crossties. The metal is worth some money to him, but he likely has a large percentage of his bid price in the crossties. Not only does he have to pick them up and haul them away, he likely has to pay a pretty stiff "tipping fee" to get rid of them at a licensed landfill. It's not likely he'll be able to sell most of them for landscaping purposes, which is probably what the ARTA estimates presumed.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Greenwich, NY
And the railroad is still letting the lies pile up without combatting them. The 'Norm' here is one of the ARTA cronies who would take pics of the Thendara parking lot at 7 in the morning and claim they were empty during business hours. Here, he claims these pics are north of Thendara on the ADK division. 100% false, as these pics are from the D&H Tahawus line, completely with Revolution Rail railbikes giving the location away.

These pieces of trash will stop at nothing until every rail on that line is pulled


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Pla
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 738
Larry Lovejoy wrote:
Both good questions. A copy of the actual bid document might help answer them, but I don't see how to download that from the NYSDOT website. Maybe somebody here already did that and could share them here.
The contract documents for both projects are there, you just have to know their D-numbers (which were omitted from advertisements for the July 23 letting for some reason.)

I took a quick look at the plan sheets for the removal project -- the scope appears to be just removing the track, salvaging the good crossties for reuse on the rehabilitation of the other end of the line, and removing the traffic control devices (crossbucks, gates, warning signs.) I have not reviewed all the amendments, however.

The plan sheets show that the "Trail" entrances are to be marked with new signs that say "No ATV's, Horses, Motor Vehicles Except Snowmobiles" and "No Pedestrians or Bicycles".
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