Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Placid

thebigham · **Joined:** Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:46 pm **Posts:** 261

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ ... il-project

State press release

A stakeholder process to determine the design and operation of the recreational trail between Lake Placid and Tupper Lake on the Remsen to Lake Placid Travel Corridor has begun, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Regional Director Bob Stegemann announced today.

“We have convened the first meeting of our core stakeholder group to help us to determine what the trail will look like and how it will be operated,” said Director Stegemann. “We will use this process to ensure the creation of a recreational trail that will provide a high quality experience for trail users and a benefit to the communities along the trail. The trail will provide a broad variety of recreational opportunities for users of all abilities.”

The core stakeholder groups consist of the executive elected official or designee of the four towns and three villages along the trail, a representative from the Adirondack Recreational Trail Advocates and representatives from the three primary user groups – cross country skiers, bicyclist and snowmobilers.

"The town of North Elba is extremely pleased to see that the recreational trail is taking shape, said town of North Elba Supervisor Roby Politi. “North Elba is a primary stakeholder and it looks forward to working with DEC and the other partners to bring this project to fruition. Its construction will ultimately benefit the region and attract more outdoor enthusiast, athletes and visitors to the Adirondacks.”

“ARTA applauds DEC for creating a stakeholder group for constructing the recreational trail,” said Lee Keet of the Adirondack Recreational Trail Advocates.

“On behalf of the Board of the town of Tupper Lake, who previously passed resolutions in support of this project, and also on behalf of the over 100 businesses in Tupper Lake alone, who have signed on with their support, I am pleased to be a part of the stakeholder group developing the recreational trail,” said Patti Littlfield, Supervisor of the town of Tupper Lake. “I am excited to move forward with our regional neighbors toward a common goal of having the recreational trail completed in a timely manner to benefit all – economically and otherwise.”

"As the representative from the Village of Saranac Lake, I am proud to be part of the stakeholder effort to develop and maintain this world-class trail in the heart of the Adirondacks,” said Rich Shapiro, Saranac Lake Village Trustee. “Representatives from four towns, three villages, trail proponents, ORDA, and DEC are all working together in a public/private partnership. Great things are happening here in the Tri-Lakes.”

In addition to DEC officials, staff or officials from the Adirondack Park Agency, Olympic Regional Development Authority, and the Department of Transportation are members of the core stakeholder group.

The stakeholder group identified issues of concern which need addressing before the trail can become operational and other stakeholders who will participate in future meetings on specific issues. The issues identified to date include but are not limited to:

Type of Material used to surface the trail;

· Parking and trail access points;

· Trail amenities;

· Signage – interpretive and directional;

· Road crossings;

· Bridges;

· Illegal motor vehicle and motorized vehicle use;

· Train stations;

· Emergency response; and

· Historic preservation.

The stakeholder process will inform DEC’s development of a draft conceptual trail design and draft conceptual operations and maintenance plan which will be provided for public review and comment in the coming months. DEC will use the final conceptual trail design to develop a request for proposals to design and construct the trail. Rail removal and initial trail construction will begin in the summer of 2017.

If you believe you can help on one or more specific issues regarding the design or operation please contact the town supervisor or village mayor in the community you live.

If you believe you can help on one or more specific issues regarding the design or operation please contact the town supervisor or village mayor in the community you live.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

thebigham wrote:

Train stations;

..and...

need more info

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 575

There was a very informative article published in the September 13, 2016 edition of the Adirondack Journal Sun:

Quote:

RAY BROOK — The state’s move to build the controversial recreation trail between Lake Placid and Tupper Lake has postponed removal of railroad tracks until next summer.

Initially, state construction looked to tear out the northern 34 miles of tracks in November, moving Adirondack Scenic Railroad excursion trains out of the region.

Instead, a group the state Department of Environmental Conservation considers “core stakeholders” has been convened to advise the process.

Link to the full article: Railroad track removal delayed until next year

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:03 am

A bit of news, though it might not really be much--the court case that was scheduled to start on September 28 has been postponed (again!) by the Attorney General of the State of New York to November 2.

crij · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am **Posts:** 518

Maybe I missed it amongst the multiple threads, but which court case are you referring to?

J3a-614 wrote:

A bit of news, though it might not really be much--the court case that was scheduled to start on September 28 has been postponed (again!) by the Attorney General of the State of New York to November 2.

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 575

crij wrote:

Maybe I missed it amongst the multiple threads, but which court case are you referring to?

From the Adirondack Sun article"Railroad track removal delayed until next year":

Quote:

The Scenic Railroad, managed by the Adirondack Railway Preservation Society (ARPS), filed litigation against DEC and the Adirondack Park Agency last spring. The 2,200-page lawsuit claims DEC and APA did not properly consider historic provenance of the railroad line, which is listed on both state and national Registers of Historic Places.

The legal challenge also asserts that removing the tracks changes the core transportation focus on what was classified, by definition, as a “railroad” Travel Corridor in the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan. Thus, as legal argument follows, the plan requires full economic and environmental impact review, a process the Preservation Society says is to date incomplete.

Oral arguments in that case are set to be presented in Franklin County Supreme Court on Sept. 28 at 10:30 a.m., according to the Supreme Court clerk in Malone. Acting Supreme Court Justice Robert G. Main Jr. is hearing the case.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

You need a full topological study, because the trackage is built on the shape of the land, just ripping it out and doing whatever you want, and allowing off road vehicles traverse it, would it be safe.

This is just full of somebody having some business interest cooercing the government to go their way creating a dangerous precendent.

In the North Shore abandonment some person(s) were found guilty of of some kind of racketeering or something related in the business dealings of the abandonment.

the Remembering Kenosha show on a local Kensha radio station had a 2 day show on the North Shore and its abandonement and they brought out a lot of information about it, and a lot of people called in with stories I never heard of.

It concerns me someone here is tinkering around. (on the Adironack)

You will probably spend a few million dollars on just doing a study.
got the money for that? The South Shore is doing just that for their Westlake expansion.
You want to get it right or cause problems down the road.
Somebody want to rip up track and make a trail, slam dunk planning...errr...no planning at all.

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:42 pm

Well, now we know why the case is being delayed:

http://www.wktv.com/news/Argument_date_ ... layed.html

http://adirondackdailyenterprise.com/pa ... l?nav=5008

One may initially want to gloat--the trail people and others were warned this was a strong possibility, even as they claimed the right of way was in fee simple--but maybe this will convince at least some that the railroad is not only an asset in itself, but is the tool that guarantees access to the corridor, both for the railroad and the trail that was the impetus behind Alternative 6.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

ah huh....but then who initiated the concept to rip the tracks out for a trail anyways...?

I see some hooligan in the ATV business mounted in the govermental process manipulating around for financial gains.

There are plenty of whys to keep the tracks in and the rail service up.

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:44 pm

From the Facebook page of a pro-rail group. . .an awful lot of this railroad is on easements with possible reversion clauses:

https://www.facebook.com/FriendsOfTheRa ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5861490E

I can personally tell you some members of the trail crowd are upset at this development.

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:37 pm

Story on the easement situation, as posted by North Country Public Radio:

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ ... -uncertain

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

now I am hearing rail-trail suddenly.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

J3a-614 wrote:

From the Facebook page of a pro-rail group. . .an awful lot of this railroad is on easements with possible reversion clauses:

https://www.facebook.com/FriendsOfTheRa ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5861490E

I can personally tell you some members of the trail crowd are upset at this development.

yeah, somebody wants to throw the railroad out. If the land owners want, they could not sell out, and have a land use agreement..IE rent/lease/whatever.
And the railway can keep on blocking any sale, note the Historical designation and there you go.

Serves them right to lunge on an unresearched project.

Quote:

He characterized the parcel where "fee title" is in question as "thousands of feet, not very many thousands of feet." That would be enough to a significant hitch in the new rail-trail pathway that is supposed to be built next spring. But Stegeman downplayed the significance of the discovery, saying, "We're beginning discussions with ownership of the land in that section where those questions have arisen. These are routine kinds of issues that come up. I think we're very confident that we'll work through these."

Stegman? lets hope they've switched to railtrail.

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:18 am

dinwitty wrote:

Quote:

He characterized the parcel where "fee title" is in question as "thousands of feet, not very many thousands of feet." That would be enough to a significant hitch in the new rail-trail pathway that is supposed to be built next spring. But Stegeman downplayed the significance of the discovery, saying, "We're beginning discussions with ownership of the land in that section where those questions have arisen. These are routine kinds of issues that come up. I think we're very confident that we'll work through these."

Stegman? lets hope they've switched to railtrail.

There might be more than what the article lets on.

Quote:

"On September 29 the State announced that it had discovered nine in-holdings along the corridor owned by two separate 501c3 not-for-profits. The DEC professes minimal concern that this will delay trial construction and claims to be working out the issue with the two land owners." From the "new" Adirondack Rail Trail [trail group] web page.

There are numerous stretches in which the rail corridor traverses private land holdings and the State of New York put the brakes on the pending Supreme Court case when it discovered that there were ownership or reversionary easements when they examined the deeds or titles of two Non-Profit 501c3 landholders in the Saranac Lake area (we can only speculate who). Possibly the State did not want to raise the alarm or create undue interest of other property owners all along the corridor, so they decided to investigate a couple of 501c3 Non-profits as a test case.

Needless to say, now we can bet there are a large number of private individuals, businesses, corporations, etc... along the rail corridor pulling out and dusting off their property title searches and title deeds to see if there are any easement agreements, revisionary clauses, eminent domain acquisitions, etc... in relation to their property when the railroads were built. This could be a payday for them if the rails get ripped up and new easement negotiations and agreements have to be worked out with New York State to put a recreational trail through their land holdings. Maybe they will face the prospect of New York using eminent domain to put the trail through without compensation. Who knows?

New York should now take the prudent path and let the rail infrastructure remain in place with the current easements within the titles and deeds silently at rest in the county courthouse ledgers, and make the best use of this transportation asset into the Adirondacks! Fulfill the vision of the 1996 Amendment 6 Plan and restore the rails and build adjoining recreational trails, and be done with this mess which is Amendment 7!--an administrator at Friends of the Rails-Adirondack Rail Corridor

The question is, will the state agencies involved have the sense to listen?

Dougvv · **Joined:** Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm **Posts:** 914

Hi,

Concerning the ownership issues and the reversionary clauses, I purchased a piece of property in 1987 that had about 900 feet of frontage on Southern Railway here in Georgia on the Atlanta-DC mainline.

I soon learned of a class action suit concerning the ROWs and many of them allowing ONLY rail service. When Southern decided to lay a fiber optic line (non rail related), the class action suit was brought about 1984-5 (just before I purchased the property).

The suit was resolved for all railroads (NS-ex-Southern, NS-ex-PRR, etc) in 2015. The payment to cancel any future claims was about 90 cents per foot. The time frame was 30-odd years for settlement.

Maybe this is a lever to prevent rail abandonment. For PR purposes, a rail and trail would be a good compromise.

FWIW

Doug vV

I am not a lawyer or have any understanding of the details. It is just a possible issue to fight rail removal.

Adirondack Park Agency oks scrapping RR line to Lake Placid

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