Russ - As the others said, thanks for posting your findings. My thought on the cooler working temps is there's more oil on the bearings. Every forward stroke is increasing the gap between axle and bearing at the rear interface edge, allowing the bearing to 'take a gulp' of additional oil - beyond what it's able to when drifting. It may not be a huge gulp, but it doesn't take much to make a difference. What's your normal bearing profile at the edge? Rounded, tapered or square? Do the main driver bearings run cooler than the others when working?

That is my theory as well.

The profile at the edge of the brass is a taper. All the bearings run about the same temperature except the #4 axle which runs a bit warmer. I would expect this due to its proximity to the firebox.

Thank you Russ for the detailed report. I'm glad that you are having good luck with oil cellars. I do have a couple of questions:

On your new cellar boxes, is the top edge covered with braze or something to prevent steel on steel contact with the journal when jacking or during derailments, etc.?

How often to you pull the cellars to inspect the Armstrong oilers? We haven't had one wear out yet, but all those steel parts in close proximity to the journals do give me pause.

Do you know if D&S is still using grease cellars?

Thanks again.

Kelly,

We don't do anything to the top edges of the new cellar boxes. We check to be certain that the running clearance will be at least 3/16" when installing new ones. By design, that is the minimum we should see with a new 9" journal. We don't attempt to close up the clearance or machine them to a close fit with the journal. The old cast grease cellar boxes were not lined in any way either so I don't feel that these pose any new hazards in that respect. We normally don't jack the engines and allow the drivers to hang on the cellars and, to my knowledge, we have never had damage to a journal caused during a derailment or similar incident.

We drop the cellars, for cleaning, inspection of the pads, and fill them with fresh oil during our winter maintenance. During our normal 5 month operating season, unless temperature readings indicate a potential problem requiring an inspection, routine maintenance is to drain any accumulation of water and keep them filled with oil.

One of the first pads we installed in 489 showed some wear of the plastic spacer buttons after two seasons of use. I replaced it out of an abundance of caution but it did not appear to be failing. The guys at Armstrong tell me that they normally get about 5 years of service out of these before they require replacement. It will be interesting to see how they will stand up for us.

The D&S is still using grease cellars and, to my knowledge, is satisfied with the service they are getting out of them.

Russ

Thanks Russ.

Russ,

I can't recall when we spoke a few months back, did you replace all the crown brass when you converted to oil, or are you still using the same brass that you ran on grease?

Eric

Okay...I have a rather odd question concerning the conversion. Because of the decrease in rolling resistance, has there been a noticeable increase in tractive effort?

Yes, this long standing practice, handed down from the D&RGW, is still the norm.


We use the same crown brasses. They are only replaced if they are too thin to machine.


Not a noticeable effect on tractive effort. It does make a difference in train handling though, particularly on the lighter grades and undulating territory, making it easier to keep the train stretched.

Russ,

What did your grease grooves look like prior to the oil conversion? Your crown brass under oil is smooth, with no Babbitt, right? So, did you just cut down the brass until the grease grooves were gone?

Eric

The grease groves in use were a mixture but mostly consisted of an outline of the edges of the brass with an "X" across the entire brass. If you unwrapped it it would have looked like a rectangle with an "X" across it. Some of the brasses were just smooth with no groves whatsoever. Interestingly, the smooth version seemed to fare best and require less frequent re-packing. Each railroad seemed to have their own ideas from what I have seen.

For the most part, the brasses that we have done the conversions on already had the grease groves mostly worn out or at least enough that by the time the brass was machined they were either completely gone or there were just a few isolated pockets left. As long as they didn't make a complete path to the side of the brass that would channel the oil away I just left the remnants in place.

I considered babbitt but most of those that I talked to who have done this conversion just run on the brass.