Railway Preservation News

OT - Windows 10
Page 3 of 4

Author:  Dave [ Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

No matter what systems on Zumwalt go wrong, the lodestone will still be reliable. None of the crew, however, will be trained to use it.

Author:  omar [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

Agreed! See the TV movie "Battleship" for a similar analogy.

Somebody is going to have to have the capacity of reading the 5 1/4" floppys lying around.

For anyone upgrading to Win10, keep in mind upward compatibility. Now that Microsoft is going to a rental model, your old software will go poof eventually. So any information/data that you will keep or want should be planned for its migration onto the new platforms and having an XP machine in mothballs with your stuff on it may not be a bad idea. The magnetic media may eventually deteriorate from cosmic rays & domain weakening, but if may last for a surprisingly long time.

Still, the time-proven method is ink on paper, unless you want to go to cuneiform.

Author:  buzz_morris [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

An adage I tried to live by .. Old technology that always worked was superior to new technology that usually worked.
That brought the response from my co-workers, we can get you some stone tablets and a chisel. Better than bakes uniform tablets?

Author:  Overmod [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

"Bakes uniform tablets?

I detect the presence of helpful crApple technology. That was 'baked cuneiform', right?

The problem with the tablets is they are even less shockproof than cartridge hard drives, and they do not handle overwriting or insertion at all well.
Everybody knows you don't use chisels on stone - you use high-pressure air. or liquid, and fine abrasive; rent the equipment from your local tombstone company with the appropriate locations for 'offsite backup'...

There was a recent discussion of laser technology in special glass that was 'archival' for many thousands of years. Of course the format will be obsolescent in an infinitesimal fraction of that. (As, I have no doubt, are any versions of historic cuneiform to members of this group... but I digress.)

Author:  PCook [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

I encountered an unexpected problem with a Windows 10 upgrade this weekend, and am mentioning it in the event it saves anyone else some time and effort troubleshooting.

A former Windows 7 Professional 64-bit machine was upgraded to Windows 10, and appeared to be functioning normally. That was until the antivirus software was installed, which is required in some cases. The machine was unable to send e-mail after the antivirus was re-installed, it would go to the outbox and just stay there. Examining the history showed it was being detected and blocked. Reading through information on this problem on the internet revealed quite a few others with a similar problem. Curiously, a very similar machine by the same computer manufacturer with 32-bit upgrade functions just fine with this antivirus package.

Uninstalling the antivirus software immediately freed up the machine, it could again send e-mail. Re-installing it immediately shut down the outbound e-mail function.

I finally installed a different antivirus package, which worked fine with the machine. I know that amounts to avoiding the issue, but I do not have the time to put into troubleshooting support software if another manufacturers product can do the job.

But it does show that some of the software suppliers are still having issues with Windows 10. You may want to wait until late in the free upgrade period to allow them the most possible time to work out the bugs.


Author:  filmteknik [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

No way to tell the AV that the email program is allowed to contact the outside world?

Author:  WVNorthern [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

One thing I didn't realize when I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 was that software updates are "automatic" with Windows 10 and that feature CANNOT be turned off (unless you are one of the few computers not connected to the internet). I keep getting a message every couple of days that says updates weren't able to be applied. I manually tried the update and it went through it's routine for about 6 hours (slow DSL connection) and gave up after giving the same message. Another time it complained about a version of NERO I had installed (which works perfectly). It wanted me to uninstall it before it would proceed with the update. This mandatory auto update must frustrate corporate users who like to oversee and co-ordinate updates across the company.

Author:  PCook [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

filmteknik wrote:
No way to tell the AV that the email program is allowed to contact the outside world?

That is the approach that many of the people discussing the problem on the internet were trying to pursue, but nobody seemed to indicate any success with it. In the end it was much easier to sidestep the problem. It is really strange though, that the same antivirus works well with a very similar 32 bit computer but not with this 64 bit machine.


Author:  superheater [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

"At least the PC's can be setup with a virtual operating system if there is a major problem. The problems are mainly with the hardware interface which a virtual system can see at that point.

Next time you watch "The Terminator" - original version, notice the code scrolling past. It is COBOL. How did a stand-alone computer from the future operate with a computer language from the 1960's? I was laughing out loud when I saw that The equivalent of a Zumwalt class destroyer using a lodestone for navigation."

One of my first professional jobs was acceptance testing COBOL. Say what you want about it, but it was mature and stable, and there's other reasons it lasted as long as it did and survives today:

http://blog.hackerrank.com/the-inevitab ... -of-cobol/

http://www.eweek.com/developer/slidesho ... ll-kicking

On the other hand, if your Zumwalt class ship was running Oracle, the munitions officer would have to open a Virtual session that has Internet Explorer 8, Java 6 version 32, and Office 2010 and disables the right click context menu. (I know this because I do this every day), because the update is problematic and EXPENSIVE.

Never knock something just because it's old. It's like ignoring dinosaurs because they are gone 65 million years, but forgetting they ruled from the Triassic to the Cretaceous.

Interestingly, you can get an open source version of COBOL, GN Cobol


Windows is always about Microsoft trying to make users conform to their ways of doing things and newest vision. That's why Linux is so prominent in the server space and why in 100 years, there is a much better chance that there will be operating steam than any diesel electric with contemporary components. Simple is robust.

Author:  Dougvv [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10


I do not know if many know about the legal restraints on Microsoft.

When IBM brought out the PC and then XT and AT models, I worked for a company called Quadram. Since the PC came with 16 kilobytes of RAM (or the more expensive version which had 64 Kilobytes), and without a clock or a game port, Quadram offered a 3rd party expansion board that had a parallel port, a serial port, a clock, a game port and 384 kilobytes of memory. (Hence Quadram - four [4] IO items and more memory).

IBM did not think there was money in operating systems or software. They got Bill Gates (outside contractor) to develop DOS and let him have full rights to it.


I think it was in the late 1990s that the move to put more and more features into Windows. Some person(s) got the idea that Microsoft was not following an upward expansion of the operating system but instead Microsoft was trying to momopolistic and drive out the competitors out of business.

The upshot was that there was an out-of-court settlement (IIRC) and it kept Microsoft from adding features such as e-book readers, integrated spreadsheet/texteditor/etc in one package. Microsoft has had to try to "improve" its operating system.

I think the statement that no one person working at Microsoft knows al the ins and outs of the operating system. (Like the Congress generating tax laws and the IRS code being over 1,400 (I'm not sure of the number anymore) pages. Not one person can describe the details of the code but the people they collect taxes from are libal for any errors.

Change to 1920's railroad.

The Pennsylvania Railroad tried several items forward thinking items int he 1920s and 1930s. One was a one-stop delivery company for cargo using the railroads, trucks (and TOFC), and eventually air for delivery. The customer would not care about whether or not he had a siding, the truck would be off-loaded from a flat car and delivered directly to the customer. In this case, several short lines took the PRR to court for trying to be a monopoly. The short line operators won. PRR ceased all tractor trailer operations.

The PRR and AT&SF formed Transcontenental and Western Airlines in the 1930s to fly coast to cost passengers during the day and let them ride the Pullmans at night. A very forward thinking idea.

I think but do not know if the cancellation of this agreement was affected buy the FDR era rulling that an airline could not own a aircraft manufacturer (and vice versa). However between this possibility and the new found ability to fly at night caused bboth AT&SF and PRR to divest themselves of TWA and it became Trans World Airlines (I recall calling it Terribly Wobbly Airlines as a kid).

I think the need to survive by living items suchas trees and so forth is to grow or die. If you accept that companies can "live" the same theory might hold. PRR died when it could not grow.

Just my 2 cents. I believe that if we (as a society) forget our history, we are doomed to relive it.

Doug vV

Author:  Bobharbison [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

omar wrote:
Somebody is going to have to have the capacity of reading the 5 1/4" floppys lying around.

Well yes, I'm sure you can find them. Ebay probably has hundreds of them.

However... We need to consider "disc rot". 5-1/4 and 3-1/2 floppies have a definite shelf life, and it's not that long. Same for those CD's and DVDs you may have laying around. "Archival" versions last longer, but even they will eventually degrade. Obviously hard drives also only last a certain period of time as well. MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) will give you an idea, but keep in mind it is a mean and you mileage may vary, sometimes wildly. Typically though, they either fail quickly or last a reasonably long period of time.

If you have valuable data you wish to truly store long term this is an issue for you. Printed copies may help, but don't use cheap inkjet ink that will quickly fade, especially when exposed to sunlight.

The only real solution is multiple backups, re-visited often and periodically copied to new media before the "best by" date on the old media.

Author:  PCook [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

Adding to this older discussion, Microsoft has started distributing a comprehensive update to Windows 10, it takes about two hours to install. It has a number of new and even more intrusive features to monitor your online usage, unless you find the switches and shut them off. Hopefully this new update will solve several of the frequent recurring problems with Windows 10:

Operating system freezes; Unexplained loss of the "setting" app button which never reappears even though it can be brought back with third party software like Stardock "Start 10"; Slow operation and occasional crashes when making attachments to several third party e-mail programs; Freezing of the "update" feature and loss of the updates list (a recurring problem since Windows 7); System freezes when opening a PDF file; Strange compatibility issues with Adobe software; etc.

I have yet to update a couple of very reliable Windows 7 computers and probably will not do so until support for that system finally ends. Windows 10 is an improvement however over the very troubled Windows 8.0 and 8.1 systems.


Author:  RDGRAILFAN [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

Just a side note on Win10 upgrade. I have been an authorized Alpha user of Win 10 as a test bed for some time.
If you have any bootleg Microsoft software, the upgrade will detect it and take appropriate steps to request that you license the software in question.
Once you upgrade you can turn off "switches" that you consider intrusive. You do need to be aware of the fact that you can customize 10 very easily.
PC MAG has a on line "check sheet" (suggest you print out) issued within the past two weeks that is easy to follow and gives a definition of each selection.

Author:  PCook [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

The biggest problem I have encountered with Windows 10, on several computers, has been "system slowdown" and "freezes", with none of the reason for it evident on task manager. It is like the old "Windows XP slowdown" that occurred with age, but in Windows 10 it surfaces much more frequently. It will be interesting to see if the update resolves any of these issues. You get tired of having to abandon the Windows 10 machine and get out your Windows 7 computer to get your work done.

Once the Windows 10 slowdown sets in, it is chronic, session after session. The only thing that seems to remedy it is the time consuming "sfc /scannow" and "DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth" functions. It should not be necessary to have to run these administrative cleanup and restore functions every few sessions to get the computer back up to speed again. Windows 7 almost never requires this kind of remedial maintenance.


Author:  superheater [ Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OT - Windows 10

The new obnoxiousness with Win 8 and 10 is the we can't log you in now, you've been logged in with a temporary profile.." cluster-what a biatch to fix.

Page 3 of 4 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group