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 Post subject: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
A deal has been struck between Ed Bowers and the Youngstown Steel Heritage Foundation to acquire the ARMCO B-71, a 1930 Westinghouse Visibility Cab locomotive and bring it to Youngstown, Ohio for preservation and eventual restoration.

The B-71 is currently located at the Minnesota Transportation Museum and is a thoroughly rusted hulk. Although its condition is rough, its historic significance warrants preservation. The Visibility Cab locomotives were the first diesel locomotives built that incorporated the novel feature of placing the engineer in a separate cab. All diesels built before the Visibility Cabs were of boxcab design.

Two Westinghouse Visibility Cab locomotives exist, the B-71 and the B-73. B-73 is at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum in Washington, PA and I spent some time there today looking it over. At the same time one of our supporters was out in St. Paul photographing the B-71. I will post photos of both B-71 and B-73 to this thread. (you can tell the two apart easily. The B-73 is orange and black, the B-71 is rust colored! :)

The B-71 will move from St. Paul to Youngstown on a flatcar sometime in 2011. Meanwhile, the YSHF will be constructing an enginehouse for it at a local industrial park, as well as raising funds to pay for the movement of this historic locomotive.

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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:49 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 226
Where all was the locomotive used during it's working life and how did it end up in Minnesota?
Thanks,
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:00 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 822
Location: NJ
Nice save! These extremly rare locos need to be saved so future generations can appreciate our railroad and transportation heritage. And you have an edge by having a working model to assist in your restoration.

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:27 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
The details are still sketchy but basically this is what happened. The B-71 was built in 1930 for Armco and used at their Butler, PA steel mill. Then it went to Michigan Railway Historical Society and then to the Cadillac & Lake City Railroad. Last operated in 1973. Around 1985 it went to St. Paul and has been sitting there ever since. At some point the Gopher State Railroad Museum wanted to buy it but that did not happen. One interesting note is that it has been out of service as long as I have been alive. I was born in 1973.


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: Chicago USA
Once again I am extremely pleased to learn of the existence of great artifacts that I had no idea were still around (that Lark Club is still extant was another recent example).

I found mention of B-71 in Kirkland's Dawn of the Diesel Age but does anyone happen to remember which issue of TRAINS discussed Westinghouse at length?

So were these not considered Baldwins because Baldwin simply contracted to build the bodies and had no other involvement? I'm surprised then to see the builder plate saying Baldwin - Westinghouse.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: Southern California
filmteknik wrote:
So were these not considered Baldwins because Baldwin simply contracted to build the bodies and had no other involvement? I'm surprised then to see the builder plate saying Baldwin - Westinghouse.
The Baldwin-Westinghouse electric locomotives all seemed to carry similar plates with BLW numbers.

Now I have a question:
The unit at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum was re-engined during its commercial life -- I think it has a Hamilton. How about the unit going to Youngstown, what model engine does it have?

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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11499
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
According to The Gospel According to Pinkepank & Marre (a.k.a. Kalmbach's Diesel Spotters series) and my notes scribbled in same, B-71 was built with a 300-hp 8 1/4 x 12-inch engines based on the original Beardmore design and built under license.

The PTM loco was originally Great Lakes Steel 1, built between 1929 and 1931, and was returned to Westinghouse which resold it to Armco in 1942. It, too was built with the same Beardmore-license 8 1/4 x 12 engine; I believe it was re-engined (as were three other Great Lakes Steel switchers built with 9 x 12 supercharged inline 530-hp engines) with a Cooper-Bessemer engine later on in its life.

Go dig out the December 1969 issue of Trains, pp. 28-43, for the "complete" Westinghouse loco story.


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
Thanks for the tip. I just went over to ebay and snagged a copy.

Both the B-71 and B-73 have Hamilton engines. The B-70 apparently still has its original Westinghouse engine.


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11499
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
And for those asking "Waitaminute, waitaminute......... what's the B-70?!?", here's the answer to that:

http://www.srmduluth.org/Exhibits/b70.htm


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
Does anyone know how the B-70 ended up in Duluth, Georgia? I can't see any connection between a Pennsylvania built and used locomotive and the State of Georgia.


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: Southern California
Stationary Steam wrote:
Does anyone know how the B-70 ended up in Duluth, Georgia? I can't see any connection between a Pennsylvania built and used locomotive and the State of Georgia.
I think they asked for the locomotive back in 1963 -- this museum associated with an NRHS Chapter had one of the early museum collections.

It is a box cab that had send steps added to it, Here is a photo from the Southeastern Railway Museum website:
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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: Chicago USA
Go dig out the December 1969 issue of Trains, pp. 28-43, for the "complete" Westinghouse loco story.

Thanks! Ah yes, 16 pages, 34 photos plus part of the cover, 4 charts and rosters. Those who wonder why some of us rave about old TRAINS need only look at this one article to see why. Their I-R article was similar in scope.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:48 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 705
As the author of that Dec. 1969 piece on the Westinghouse diesels it makes me happy to see it still highly regarded. Thanks for the compliments, guys.

These locos differed from the later "Baldwin" diesels (c.1937-56) because these early units were DESIGNED by Westinghouse Electric & Mfg. Co. engineers. BLW served only as the source of carbodies. Note that during a period when the traditional BLW/WEMCo relationship cooled, Bethlehem Shipbuilding stepped in and supplied a number of carbodies to Westinghouse. Those had oval Westinghouse plates with, of course, no mention of BLW. Very late in the WEMCo diesel era three units for Great Lakes Steel were done with BLW carbodies, but those had BOTH the oval WEMCo plates (on the cab sides) and round BLW/WH plates in a much less conspicuous location.

After 1937 Westinghouse abandoned loco production under their own name and became the supplier of choice to BLW (and others) for electrical equipment. Those diesels were DESIGNED by BLW personnel.

Armco B70 was reengined around the same time as B71 and B73, details are in the 12/69 TRAINS article. Centercab Armco B72 was also reengined, but with Cooper Bessemer engines instead of Hamilton. It later gained a measure of fame as Cheswick & Harmar RR 2nd #5.

As noted, B73 at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum is very much alive and well. Aside from the occasional switching of our few standard gauge cars, it has also served on several occasions as emergency power for our 600VDC trolley operations. It had plenty of power to run two trolleys simultaneously.

Dave Hamley


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 Post subject: Re: ARMCO B-71 Will Be Preserved
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:07 pm
Posts: 4
As the lead person on the MTM's "what to do with the B-71" team, I'm able to weigh in on the PREMATURE posting of the details of the pending spring 2011 move of the B-71 to Ohio. While MTM believes that the eventual move is appropriate given the historical nature of the locomotive and its preservation and display in Ohio is certainly more in line with its history than within Minnesota, there are a number of significant details that require addressing prior to any such announcement.

MTM is in possession of the locomotive due to a very confusing and somewhat unusual series of ownership claims, defaults and counter claims. Until those issue are fully resolved and what my people are referring to as "back rent" for secure storage neigh onto 10 years is addressed, we consider the transfer on hold.

Moreover, we have been asked to assist the Youngstown group in negotiating free and/or reduced drayage from our railroad partners, further they have made the assumptions that we have the manpower flexibility for such a commitment of time; that our trackage is public access; and no conflicting equipment moves of this item and other items of our collection to differing physical locations over winter are scheduled and/or budgeted.

MTM successfully operates excursion trains through its Osceola and Saint Croix Valley Rairoad, and maintains the Jackson Street Roundhouse in Saint Paul, showcasing Minnesota transportation in a variety of formats.


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