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 Post subject: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:49 pm
Posts: 4
I have been interested in the FP10s that were retired from the MBTA for quite some time now and I am hoping to get some help in tracking some down. I have created a list of their fates along with the dates I got the information, and am hoping some of the info I don't have someone on RYPN has so I can fill it in.
When a number is highlighted red it is to indicate it was indicated that the unit was scrapped.

MBTA 1100: Running on San Luis and Rio Grande Railroad (June 2015)
MBTA 1101: At Gold Coast RR Museum, non-operational (June 2016)
MBTA 1102: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1103: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1104: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1105:New Orleans & Gulf Coast, Scrapped 2010
MBTA 1106: Running on Idaho Northern and Pacific Railroad (August 2015)
MBTA 1107: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1108: Idaho Northern and Pacific Railroad, Parts (2006)
MBTA 1109: Metro North Commuter Railway #410, Sold to Frontier Industries, Presumably scrapped. (2010)
MBTA 1110: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1111: Fire in 1987, Unknown since MBTA
MBTA 1112: Running on Idaho Northern and Pacific Railroad (August 2015)
MBTA 1113: MNCR #411, Went to Frontier with 1109
MBTA 1114: San Luis and Rio Grande Railroad, condition unknown (2008)
MBTA 1150: Nebraska Central, Operating (2011)
MBTA 1151: Adirondack Railway Preservation Society #1502, Operating (2015)
MBTA 1152: Metro North #413, Supposedly saved for a unknown museum (2010)
MBTA 1153:Edaville Railroad Corp, On display in-op. (2016)

If anyone has any updates on any of these I'd love to update the list. I would really like to know what the fate of 1152 (MN 413) is.
It seems 5/19 are currently operating, which is pretty good for units originally built in the 1940s.

Thanks,
Jmar896


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 258
Location: Houston, TX
Do you have a cross reference as to what these units original GM&O numbers were?


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 202
You're missing a Metro North notation for MBTA 1151. She was the one of the four that they acquired and was numbered #412.

I'd love to find out that Metro North #413 was saved. She rolled out of La Grange in December 1946 and for quite sometime was setting the record for the longest lived mainline diesel in regular commercial service in the US, or likely anywhere. Trains even ran a nice story about her in their all-EMD issue from September 1997, which celebrated EMD's 75th birthday.

While surely outdone by a Geep by now, it seems appropriate that one of these be saved after their long lived final career on Metro North. There's another survivor that's owned by the Adirondack Railway Preservation Society (MBTA #1151), but I've been told in no uncertain terms at another forum that a locomotive on the Adirondack Scenic Railroad is a tool to do a job, nothing more, nothing less.

When their days powering excursion trains are done, their final job is to be parted out to keep another locomotive going and then be converted into cash via scrapping what's left. So she's not preserved despite the title of her owner, which refers to the railroad itself and not any equipment that rolls on its rails.

No room for locomotive sentimentality there, it seems. And perhaps that's how it should be when they're fighting these days just to keep their mission and all their hard work alive.

elueck wrote:
Do you have a cross reference as to what these units original GM&O numbers were?


MBTA #1152/Metro North #413 was delivered to the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio as their #880A.

jmar896 wrote:
MBTA 1114
MBTA 1150


Never seen a roster until now, so it never piqued my curiosity. Why the large gap here for what otherwise were consecutively numbered units?


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:49 pm
Posts: 4
elueck wrote:
Do you have a cross reference as to what these units original GM&O numbers were?
Yes, I do.
1153: GMO 883A (F3A)
1152: GMO 880A (F3A)
1151: GMO 884A (F3A)
1150: GMO 885A (F3A)
1114: GMO 811A (F3A)
1113: GMO 810A (F3A)
1112: GMO 808B (F3A)
1111: GMO 810B (F3A)
1110: GMO 809B (F3A)
1109: GMO 807B (F3A)
1108: GMO 806B (F3A)
1107: GMO 807A (F3A)
1106: GMO 803A (F3A)
1105: GMO 801B (F3A)
1104: GMO 812A (F7A)
1103: GMO 800B (F3A)
1102: GMO 806A (F3A)
1101: GMO 800A (F3A)
1100: GMO 805A (F3A)

LeoA wrote:
You're missing a Metro North notation for MBTA 1151. She was the one of the four that they acquired and was numbered #412.

I left that part out because I was only noting where the units are now. Some of these have been through 6 owners since the MBTA, quite a long life... I have the full heritage of a good number of them.
LeoA wrote:
I'd love to find out that Metro North #413 was saved. She rolled out of La Grange in December 1946 and for quite sometime was setting the record for the longest lived mainline diesel in regular commercial service in the US, or likely anywhere. Trains even ran a nice story about her in their all-EMD issue from September 1997, which celebrated EMD's 75th birthday.

While surely outdone by a Geep by now, it seems appropriate that one of these be saved after their long lived final career on Metro North. There's another survivor that's owned by the Adirondack Railway Preservation Society (MBTA #1151), but I've been told in no uncertain terms at another forum that a locomotive on the Adirondack Scenic Railroad is a tool to do a job, nothing more, nothing less.

When their days powering excursion trains are done, their final job is to be parted out to keep another locomotive going and then be converted into cash via scrapping what's left. So she's not preserved despite the title of her owner, which refers to the railroad itself and not any equipment that rolls on its rails.

No room for locomotive sentimentality there, it seems. And perhaps that's how it should be when they're fighting these days just to keep their mission and all their hard work alive.

Yes, these units did see an exceptionally long service life. Some of them are still hauling trains at 70.

I understand what Adirondack Scenic does in some ways. However, I do hope one F10 is properly preserved, preferably in the northeast. The way Gold Coast dressed up there F10 does not represent its heritage at all...

LeoA wrote:
jmar896 wrote:
MBTA 1114
MBTA 1150


Never seen a roster until now, so it never piqued my curiosity. Why the large gap here for what otherwise were consecutively numbered units?

1100-1114 were equipped with HEP genset during their rebuilding. 1150 to 1153 retained steam for a short period of time, but I believe they got HEP within a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:08 pm
Posts: 37
jmar896 wrote:
MBTA 1151: Adirondack Railway Preservation Society #1502, Operating (2015)
MBTA 1152: Metro North #413, Supposedly saved for a unknown museum (2010)



1151: 1502 is still in operation and very well cared for.
1152: 413 is still sitting in Croton Harmon for said museum, friends of mine at MN didn't know what museum either.

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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:49 pm
Posts: 4
Ok, so here is an updated list. Information is from Ddatrainman, and I believe that 1108 was scrapped along with the New Orleans & Gulf Coast 1105.
MBTA 1100: Running on San Luis and Rio Grande Railroad (June 2015)
MBTA 1101: At Gold Coast RR Museum, non-operational (June 2016)
MBTA 1102: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1103: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1104: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1105:New Orleans & Gulf Coast, Scrapped 2010
MBTA 1106: Running on Idaho Northern and Pacific Railroad (August 2015)
MBTA 1107: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1108: Idaho Northern and Pacific Railroad, Parts (2006) Scrapped
MBTA 1109: Metro North Commuter Railway #410, Sold to Frontier Industries, Presumably scrapped. (2010)
MBTA 1110: Unknown since the MBTA retired it
MBTA 1111: Fire in 1987, Unknown since MBTA
MBTA 1112: Running on Idaho Northern and Pacific Railroad (August 2015)
MBTA 1113: MNCR #411, Went to Frontier with 1109
MBTA 1114: San Luis and Rio Grande Railroad, condition unknown (2008)
MBTA 1150: Nebraska Central, Operating (2011)
MBTA 1151: Adirondack Railway Preservation Society #1502, Operating (2016)
MBTA 1152: Metro North #413, Supposedly saved for a unknown museum (2016)
MBTA 1153:Edaville Railroad Corp, On display in-op. (2016)

Ddatrainman wrote:
1152: 413 is still sitting in Croton Harmon for said museum, friends of mine at MN didn't know what museum either.

Do you happen to know if there are any modern pictures of 413? The latest I have seen is 2009/2010. Is it still on their "dead line"?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 905
I know of a GM&O fan/ former ICG employee who is looking for a shell of an ex-GM&O F3/F10 to display, she is the person who found and donated a GM&O F3 (unconverted) shell still in GM&O paint to a town in Missouri (Union?) only to have it scrapped by the city council before she knew what happened.


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:35 pm 
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Location: H2O-town, CT
jmar896 wrote:
Ddatrainman wrote:
1152: 413 is still sitting in Croton Harmon for said museum, friends of mine at MN didn't know what museum either.

Do you happen to know if there are any modern pictures of 413? The latest I have seen is 2009/2010. Is it still on their "dead line"?

Thanks


I don't think it's where one could easily get pics. I know from a contact at MN that it was still there earlier this year along with NYC painted FL-9 2012.


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:02 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 914
Hi,

I am familiar with PRR steam and electrics, D&RGW narrow gauge steam, and a few types of diesels used on Southern (E8, FP9, RS3 etc.) during 1968-1973 (my grades 7-12 growing up near Southern Steam Specials).

I do not recall hearing of a F10. I looked in my copy of "The Second Diesel Spotters Guide" and the "MR Cyclopedia Vol 2 Diesel Locomotives." Neither book talks about an F10 or FP10.

Can someone direct me to photos and/or a description of this type of diesel?

Thanks.

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:42 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 336
Location: Ipswich, UK
Dougvv wrote:
Hi,

I do not recall hearing of a F10. I looked in my copy of "The Second Diesel Spotters Guide" and the "MR Cyclopedia Vol 2 Diesel Locomotives." Neither book talks about an F10 or FP10.

Can someone direct me to photos and/or a description of this type of diesel?

Thanks.

Doug vV


My 1989 copy of "The Contemporary Diesel Spotters Guide" describes the FP10 as "an informal designation for 13 Paducah rebuilds of former GM&O F3A's for MBTA"

Presumably the informal bit has become formalised over the years!

A photo of one that I took whilst it was sitting at Ipswich, MA, during August 1987 is shown below.

Attachment:
87-323.JPG
87-323.JPG [ 314.45 KiB | Viewed 5173 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:54 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 914
Hi,

Thanks. I'd forgotten about the Paducah rebuilds.

My "Diesel Spotters Guide Update" (1980) talks about the rebuilding programs and items such as a GP10. The F10 does not seem to be included. However a lot of unofficial designations are discussed.

As a side point, the GM SW1200MG built for Iron Ore of Canada, is an interesting modification of the SW1200. It removed the diesel and dropped in a rectifier and pantographs.

I like these types of loco modifications.

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:30 am
Posts: 47
As I'm in the Boise area I took a trip up to Horseshoe Bend and Emmett yesterday to see for myself what, if anything, had happened to the Idaho Northern & Pacific's FP10's. As you can see from the photo all three, 1112, 1150 & 1106, were lined up at Horseshoe Bend and it didn't look as if either the locos or passenger cars had moved since the INPRR suspended the Thunder Mountain operation in January.
GP9r #4603 was in Emmett yard as were RDC1's # 10 &11.
Ray.


Attachments:
INPRR FP10's at Horseshoe Bend ID.jpg
INPRR FP10's at Horseshoe Bend ID.jpg [ 300.92 KiB | Viewed 4774 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:27 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 262
Dougvv wrote:
Hi,

I am familiar with PRR steam and electrics, D&RGW narrow gauge steam, and a few types of diesels used on Southern (E8, FP9, RS3 etc.) during 1968-1973 (my grades 7-12 growing up near Southern Steam Specials).

I do not recall hearing of a F10. I looked in my copy of "The Second Diesel Spotters Guide" and the "MR Cyclopedia Vol 2 Diesel Locomotives." Neither book talks about an F10 or FP10.

Can someone direct me to photos and/or a description of this type of diesel?

Thanks.

Doug vV


MBTA somehow ended up with several worn GP9 units (567C engines), and wanted cab units for commuter use.
ICG had several ex-GM&O F3/F7 units (567B engines) it wanted gone.
MBTA got the 567C engines from their GPs - after rebuilding - back in upgraded F-unit carbodies; ICG got more GPs for the Paducah program.

CD


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 448
Anyone happen to have good pictures of the top of the HEP equipped units?

Which members retained steam generators and for how long?

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: MBTA FP10 (F10) Fates
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:30 pm
Posts: 164
Location: NH Shoreline
I had long forgotten about this thread. As an update to the list above, Metro North 413 was donated to Danbury Railroad Museum back in June of this year.


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