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 Post subject: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:52 am
Posts: 48
All,
I was curious if anyone knows the final disposition of the items that were sold in the Museum of Science & Industry auction last fall. I know the York replica made it to the B&O Museum, but I haven't seen any info about the Mississippi locomotive, the John Stevens replica, the Rocket replica or the horse car replica. Not sure if I'm missing anything; I think that might be it. Can anyone shed some light?

Cliff


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:26 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1888
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I am curious too.

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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:52 am
Posts: 48
The link below, written before the auction, has more info as well as photographs of the pieces that were auctioned. I'd forgotten about the PRR cab. The article mentions that the museum decided to keep the Rocket replica.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2015092 ... -old-train


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 459
Trains is reporting that the Mississippi was acquired by Pete Claussen, owner of Knoxville, Tenn.-based Gulf & Ohio Railways:
'Mississippi' owner reveals surprise at Lexington Group meeting


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3731
Location: Maine
Where did the Pennsy cab and backhead finally wind up?

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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:50 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:52 am
Posts: 48
Thanks for the tip! Great to see the Mississippi is in good hands. Here's a link to a video on the Trains website with more info:

http://trn.trains.com/photos-videos/vid ... ippi-saved

The video mentions an upcoming article in the November issue.


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:50 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 965
Location: Leicester, MA.
Chris Webster wrote:
Trains is reporting that the Mississippi was acquired by Pete Claussen, owner of Knoxville, Tenn.-based Gulf & Ohio Railways:
'Mississippi' owner reveals surprise at Lexington Group meeting

So if I understand this right (it is behind paywall), someone thought for years that Mississippi was a british-built engine, then Pete Claussen finds out that the accepted story was wrong? How'd he reach that conclusion?

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Dylan M. Lambert


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 37
Location: Knoxville, TN
A paper explaining why she is American is scheduled to be published in the Spring 2017 edition of Railway History magazine. In a nutshell:
1. Only one historian has ever independently concluded that she was of English origin. That historian has been completely discredited as someone who made up what he didn't know and even forged what he presented as official documents.
2. At least four prominent historians have questioned her purported English origins.
3. She has an inside bar frame and a Bury boiler, a combination unknown in England.
4. She has a wrought iron firebox. English fireboxes of the period were copper.
5. Her boiler is 5/16th inch wrought iron. The English never used less than 3/8ths.
6. She was delivered by an employee of a New York locomotive builder and described as one of his products.
7. There is not a shred of evidence that she was built in England.
Pete Claussen


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:50 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1888
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi Pete

Sure you mean Bury boiler, and not wagon top? A Bury boiler would be like the British Lion or the John Bull.

Looks like I see an ultrasound grid in the video. How does the boiler look for steaming?

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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 37
Location: Knoxville, TN
Steven:
Of course, you are right. I must have had Bury boilers on my mind.
The Mississippi has a Stephenson boiler and an inside bar frame.
To amplify:
There were two basic types of locomotives being made in England at the time. Those of the Bury design, with a Bury boiler and an inside bar frame and those of the Stephenson design with an outside plate frame and a Stephenson boiler. John Bull is a rare hybrid with a Bury boiler and an outside plate frame, which Stevenson built that way because that is what the buyer wanted. I am unaware of any of the opposite hybrid, inside bar frame and Stevenson boiler, made in England.
We did an ultrasound that established that the boiler was made from 5/16th inch wrought iron. Unfortunately time has taken its toll and the boiler now has several places that are below 2/10ths of an inch and one that is only 0.09 inches.
Pete


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 556
A chemical analyses of the boiler and other metal parts would clear up their source quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:56 am
Posts: 37
Location: Knoxville, TN
We thought so too, but can't find a metallurgist who agrees. I'd love to be able to get that done.
Pete


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:56 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1888
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Imagine, the last time Mississippi was steamed, it had a wrought iron spot of only 3/32 inch thickness. Living dangerously and to the fullest!

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Steven Harrod
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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:39 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 419
Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
These are very interesting revelations. I look forward to reading the article!

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: MSI auction follow-up - where did they go?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:16 pm 

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 8:56 pm
Posts: 81
Location: New York
Very interesting read, I'm sure there is crucial evidence to be revealed in the Trains article or elsewhere that points to American origin.

Just out of curiosity, would the style of the locomotive guarantee the geographical location of its builder? I remember reading somewhere that around the same time period, John B. Jervis as Chief Engineer of the Mohawk and Hudson contracted with Stephenson's firm to build some 4-2-0's to his exact specifications even though the English builder never personally designed any locomotives with a bogie truck and somewhat disagreed with the practice.


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