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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:25 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 794
Location: NJ
crij wrote:
Bowmore wrote:
I appreciate your comments. We believe the cracks were caused by the fact the rear of the engine was not supported, but depended on the bell housing. Over time the strain cracked the bell housing and caused the shaft to bind..


If this was true, then you would see this on every GE 25, 30, 44, 45 & 80 (center cab) ton switchers out there, along with most industrial stand by generators. All of them use the generator as the rear mount of the prime mover (along with your car/truck, the transmission is the rear mount of your engine). Either the housing has an inclusion (sand pocket from casting) or was damaged by previous owner. Probably reasons would have been rough handling during maintenance or uneven shimming.

I would highly recommend not even attempting to start the engine with that bolt arrangement, not enough stiffness. Even if it held for a test, you will develop a crack running from bolt to bolt in a very short time, as you have now concentrated all the weight and torque of the engine across those 4 points. Crack must be repaired or larger reinforcement must be welded/brazed onto the housing.

I hope you find a better solution. Please for you safety and the life of your critter, now you have the crack secured, pull the engine and bring the housing to a welder that can fix it properly or find a replacement.

Regards,
Rich C.

P.S. Mr Ed, on these locomotives (GE 25 ton) along with the 44 & 45 ton GE switchers, the engine mounts are at the nose of the motor and the generator body. They are not in the middle of the engine like an automotive engine. They are more like a farm tractor, where the assembly is the structure, rear of the engine has to be supported before removing the generator.


Thanks for the heads up. While I do recall looking at the engines on our 45 and 100 ton GE center cab locomotives, I never really looked that close at how they were mounted.

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:56 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 85
Dear Mr. Ed,
You are correct. That is why we added supports under the rear of the engine to remove the stress from the bell housing.
The original diesel and generator from the 1941 23 Ton have been replaced with later models.
The diesel is a 1970's Cummins, and the generator is also newer than the 1941 model. I am still looking for the nameplate on the generator


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:11 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 569
What is the bell housing made of? If you attempt to weld this crack cold will thermal cracks develop worse than the original crack? Lock n Stitch heats pieces to 1500 degrees F before welding, I am sure this is not their original idea but has anyone attempted to duplicate this procedure?


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5476
Location: southeastern USA
Welding can be done at lower temperatures using low temp braze or silver solder, as well a higher temperature with nickel or eutectic rod. I'd certainly want to get an expert's guidance based on the alloys involved.

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 85
PMC wrote:
What is the bell housing made of? If you attempt to weld this crack cold will thermal cracks develop worse than the original crack? Lock n Stitch heats pieces to 1500 degrees F before welding, I am sure this is not their original idea but has anyone attempted to duplicate this procedure?

The bell housing is cast iron, and cannot be welded the way steel can. Lock n Stitch has a big power point on the problems with welding. They recommend either furnace brazing where the entire piece is heated, or their mechanical stitching.
since we do not need to make the bell housing hermetic, we think our solution along with the rear supports will work.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5476
Location: southeastern USA
That advice was for cast iron. There are many kinds of cast iron......

If I sold nonwelding repairs for a living, I'd try to make people avoid welding, too.

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 271
"That advice was for cast iron. There are many kinds of cast iron......"

Yes there are many types of cast iron and they all have much lower tensile strength than steel. That is why it is difficult to fix internal cracks (away from the edges) with welding unless you have a big furnace and lots of experience.

Hacking at it with a nickel arc welding rod will be some thing you will regret later, the intense heat will just make the crack bigger and the metal around the crack harder so you cannot install stitching pins in the future.

"If I sold nonwelding repairs for a living, I'd try to make people avoid welding, too"

Actually the Lock and stitch folks sell both welding repair services and their stitching pins.

They are not the only outfit that sells stitching pins, but in my opinion their system is well thought out.

I got one of their kits for under $1000 (had enough pins for about 12 inches of crack) and did the stitching pin repairs myself, with sharp drill bits and taps the drilling and installation is surprisingly fast.

And their system actually pulls the crack together.

Either way good luck, hope your repairs and extra bracing works out for you.

Cheers, Kevin (not associated with Lock and Stitch)


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:56 pm
Posts: 18
Maybe this is too simple. A Google search for GE 23 ton brought up a lot of photos. Perhaps you can find another one that is a display and make a "donation" and a "swap".


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 85
conopt_rail wrote:
Maybe this is too simple. A Google search for GE 23 ton brought up a lot of photos. Perhaps you can find another one that is a display and make a "donation" and a "swap".

The only problem id that it might be in worse shape than ours.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 85
HELP! I am trying to accumulate all the documentation for this engine. Does anyone have a manual for an SA-2 Valve?? I just got the one for the SA-9 valve.
Thank you!
P.S. Does anyone know where to look for the nameplate on the generator. I cannot find it so far.
Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 271
"P.S. Does anyone know where to look for the nameplate on the generator."

One caveat of Murphy's Law is that Name Plates are always located in the one place on the whole system where the lighting is the worst and all the "gunk" accumulates due to the forces of gravity.

Some rags soaked in kerosene and rubber gloves wiped over the exterior of the generator may help locate the nameplate based on "the feel" (IE it feels like something with numbers embossed on it is located here).

Then some cheap disposable plastic scrappers and "Greased Lightning" (a super strong version of "409") may help you remove the "gunk" that is hiding the info you need.

Good luck. Kevin.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 85
Whew! We just finished drilling and tapping the bell housing left side. Because the crack was longer we decided to us three bolts across the crack.
With that done, we are ready to tackle the diesel engine. Here are our plans:
1. Install pushrods and injectors
2. Adjust rocker arms to factory specifications
3. Replace rocker arm cover gaskets and reinstall covers
4. Reinstall starter
5. Inspect all rubber hoses and replace as necessary
6. Drain and refill radiator
7. Drain crankcase and replace with 5 gallons of oil
8. Replace air, oil, fuel and fuel/water filters
9. Remove the belt driving the alternator
10. Connect batteries to starter
11. Cross our fingers


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 85
I would like to thank the Hawaii RR society for sending me the parts manual for their switcher. In return I sent them the Military manual I had on their switcher. I plan to visit them in November when I am Oahu.


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:12 pm
Posts: 85
Has anyone got a manual for a Westinghouse SA-2 straight air valve?? The engine otiginally came with a 14E1, but now has an SA-2 and sSA-9 valve.
According to the piping diagram in the engine manual, there were 6 pipes going into the valve. The SA-2 only has 3


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 Post subject: Re: GE 1941 23 Ton Switcher
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:14 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 550
Information on the SA-2 and other self-lapping brake valves::

http://www.cotma.net.au/library/westinghouse/air_systems/WH%20Leaflet%202455%20%20Self%20Lapping%20Brake%20Valves%20-%201932.pdf

COTMA is the Council of Tramway Museums of Australasia - very interesting web site.

http://www.cotma.net.au/


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