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 Post subject: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:24 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 655
Location: cheyenne
Pondering this the other night, what are the oldest restored passenger cars in existence ? Sacramento has an early one or two but where else and what else ?
I realize the business car thread ties in with this to an extent, but i was wondering about passenger cars in general.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:50 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 613
This would be a good choice in my eyes. East Jordan & Southern #2. Attached link say 11/1864 build date. This car is getting some attention the last year or two between other projects in the restoration dept. It has received new side sill and new or renewed bracing where needed on the East side and Pete Becker is the guy heading up the work on this car. Now that the east side is about done he is starting on the west side. Just got the 10 cent tour last week and got to see his progress and some small areas that have been done inside. Most of the pain staking work has been more structural at this time. This car was kind of wiggly when it went down the track. Being 150 years old and no recent rebuilds I can see this as to be expected.

http://www.midcontinent.org/equipment-r ... outhern-2/

This car has kind of a funny history, at least funny to me. In the mid 1970s I was down there one day at MC and it was pouring rain. A fellow member who is and was mostly a mechanic and machinist was up in arms because all these wood coaches had leaky roofs. It was justified that he was upset. So between rain storms he and I patched small tears that were obvious with some sort of mesh and tar resin goop. When we got to the East Jordon car there was nothing to patch, the roof was complete toast. We moved the car into the engine house to get it out of the rain. He told me rip the roofing all the way off which didn't take a lot of effort. We were at the roof boards within very short order. His statement was something on the order of "this car is too unique to be ruined like this. Without a roof on the car it can't go back outside so it will be safe for now". So the car sat under a roof for some time. A few years later the large building the restoration dept calls home was built, before that I think the car display building went up. This car has been under a roof for quite a few years now. I truly admire my friend who ordered the roof torn off the car to try and save it. No we did not get BOD approval for this decision. Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Southern California
Your inquiry begs a question -- or rather an observation. Since there are cars dating to the 1880s that have been in continuous service (and modification), these would not be considered to be restored. Such cars are in operation on the Durango & Silverton and on the White Pass & Yukon Route and at Knott's Berry Farm.

We have to look at cars dating to prior to 1880. And probably need to note cars that exist, but have not been restored.

The Nevada State RR Museum has restored cars that date to 1873 and 1874. It has an un-restored car that the V&T converted to a coach in 1878 -- it was constructed by the Central Pacific as an officer's car in 1868 and it carried the Gold Spike to Promontory Summit in May of 1869.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Southern California
The oldest restored cars at California State Railroad Museum would be:
    1) Monterey & Salinas Valley #1 -- 3' gauge baggage-coach built by Carter Brothers in 1874;
    2) Virginia & Truckee #16 -- baggage-coach built by Detroit Car Works in 1874
    3) Nevada Central #3 -- 3' gauge coach by by the NC in 1881
.
The B&O museum has older cars. But watch out for replica cars that the B&O railroad built in 1892 or 1926. Ones that appear to be real are the "Nova Scotia Coach" built in 1838 and the B&O coach #21 built in 1868.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:50 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
There were some interesting answers and perspectives in this thread, though the cars themselves are not railroad cars as such.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40005&p=254581


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:35 am 

Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 8:56 pm
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Location: New York
I believe the Camden and Amboy passenger coach at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania is original to the 1830's. Seems a pretty good candidate for oldest preserved, at least in North America.


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:50 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
Posts: 521
John Risley wrote:
This would be a good choice in my eyes. East Jordan & Southern #2. Attached link say 11/1864 build date. This car is getting some attention the last year or two between other projects in the restoration dept......


They recently received an NRHS grant that went for the preservation of this car.

There's an article about it in the Oct. 2016 issue of NRHS News --

see page 15 of

https://admin.nrhs.com/NRHSNews/NRHS-Ne ... er2016.pdf

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:30 pm
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V&T Coach #8 was built in 1869 in Virginia City, Nevada. It has always been in service and never “restored”. It has been repaired, reworked, modified, and up dated. The last serious work was about 15 years ago when one end sill was replaced. It is pretty cool from that regard.


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 125
I know that these are later but the EBT has some coaches getting restored built in the 1870's or 1880's


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
The Museum of Transportation near St.Louis has the 1833 Boston & Providence coach that was cleaned up and put on exhibit about two years ago. Its body is original but the running gear dates to 1893 when it was restored for the Chicago World's Fair. This is the oldest surviving passenger car in North America, with a body like a Concord coach. So how do we define "restored" for this question?

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Ron Goldfeder
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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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The NorthWestern Pacific Railroad Historical Society is restoring former Central Pacific car #29, later NorthWestern Pacific #123. It was built in 1868 by Wason. It is a true restoration and actually could go in the "biggest basket cases restored" thread (one of my favorites), it had been detrucked and converted to a dwelling:

http://nwprrhs.org/coach-29.html
http://nwprrhs.org/coach-29-pictures.html

The B&O RR Museum in Baltimore kindly donated the trucks and many underframe parts from B&O 20, originally a CofNJ Wason car, to the effort, these parts had been stored outside since the car was crushed in the roundhouse collapse, the interior furnishings were kept as spares for B&O #21 which survived the collapse (I am paraphrasing so history buffs may point out any flaws in the timeline).


Last edited by PMC on Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
Speaking of ex-Central Pacific cars, the body of one of the Jackson and Sharp coaches from 1869 is inside the freight end of the old SP depot at Calistoga, CA. Not restored; but, painted and protected from the elements.

It also seems to have been at Promontory Summit on that historic day in May, 1869. The story is told in this RyPN thread from a few years ago: Calistoga Wine Stop, Ca.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 655
Location: cheyenne
Perhaps i should have said oldest surviving cars in museums or rescued, restored or unrestored, interesting thread though thanks everyone.
I like basket cases (that is obvious) and in Cheyenne we have our eyes on 'Omaha' the 1866 Wagner 10 section drawing room sleeper....one of the USA's oldest contenders as well.

Mike Pannell
High Plains Railroad Preservation


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:28 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
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I would have to look at the dates but the passenger coaches of both the D&H and Pennsylvania Coal Co gravity railroads may be in contention for that honor. They may have relied on gravity for the declines, but they also used stationary steam power for the inclines and included all the basics of passenger travel.


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 Post subject: Re: Earliest restored Passenger cars
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

Quote:
Museum of Transportation near St.Louis has the 1833 Boston & Providence


This is amazing to me. The first common carrier railroad, B&O, was started just a year before.

I have a dial-up connection and the Museum's web site apparently has a lot of flashy "Oh Wow" stuff that makes my connecting next to impossible. Is there a photo elsewhere on-line of this car?

Thanks.

Doug vV (Born St Louis 1955 - 1st Birthday in Jackson Mississippi).


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