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American steam in Cuba
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40080		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  robteed [ Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  American steam in Cuba
As many of you know there are a lot of American built steam locomotives in Cuba. Most of them no longer in operation but several still working on tourist railroads. I along with several other journalist will be headed to Cuba on January 31st. We plan to study the history of Cuban railways and document the current state of improvements being implemented.
Author:  philip.marshall [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
Here is a link that may be useful:

http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/cuba0901.htm

-Philip Marshall
Author:  christensenge [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
robteed wrote:
We plan to study the history of Cuban railways and document the current state of improvements being implemented.


The most authoritative English language historical reference on the development of Cuban railways and the sugar industry is:

"Sugar & Railroads - A Cuban history, 1837-1958"
By Oscar Zanetti and Alejandro Garcia
Translated By: Franklin M. Knight and Mary Todd - 1998 University of North Carolina Press ISBN - 0-80-2385-6

Best Regards,
Glenn
Author:  tomgears [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
I was in Cuba the past April. Many of the locomotives have been gathered up from the various closed-down sugar mills and collectively deposited in various locations for display. Most of the display locomotives are in fair to poor condition. I didn't encounter one that was really well done. We did ride one operating 2-6-0 at Jose Smith Comas which is now a museum and tourist railroad.

Let me know if you would like more details.
Author:  John T [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
While your looking at American steam in Cuba don't forget the cranes. These Industrial Works cranes are known to be there.

2826 75t W 1920 F.C.C., C.A.I. Camillo Cienfugos #78200
Cuban Railways #C2
Cuban National Railway Museum Havana, Cuba
3007 MINAZ #25 626 Guatemala Sugar Mill, Cuba (in use 2006)
3349 1916 MINAZ #24 626 Guatemala Sugar Mill, Cuba (here 2006)
3739 60t 1920 Panama Canal
MINAZ #3495 C.A.I. Cairo Redondo Sugar Mill, Cuba
(here 2006)
Patria o Murte Museum Cuba (here 01-09-13)
3826 75t W 1920 F.C.C., C.A.I. Camillo Cienfugos #78200
Museo del Ferrocarril de Cuba, Cristina, Havana as #C-2

I just noticed that the first and last are probably the same machine. The date would indicate that #3826 is correct. If you would like a full list drop me a PM.
Author:  Bartman-TN [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
The NRHS Bulletin had a two-part article on the railways of Cuba in Number 3 and 4 in 2003 - more than 100 pages in total with lots of photos.. #3 dealt with the main railroads while #4 dealt with the sugar cane and steam operations. I was one of the authors and reported from several trips at the time. This might be a good base to compare what it is like 15 years later.
Bart Jennings
Author:  christensenge [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
Two more references for you. Both cover the disposition of locomotives while still at the Centrals. The first is:

"Trains of Cuba - Steam, Diesel & Electric"
By Adolph Hungry Wolf
Pub By: Canadian Caboose Press
ISBN: 0-920698-46-8

This book is a pretty complete "field reference guide" and contains Photos, Maps, Rosters and Detailed Information on each Central.

The second is:
"Narrow Gauge Railways of CUBA - from the 1860s to the present day"
By Christopher Walker
Pub By: Trackside Publications
ISBN: 978-1-900095-38-9

This book is essentially the first book on steroids, having everything in the first book plus huge amounts of other salient information. This is the book that sits in your hotel while the other gets spattered and written in.

My thoughts are:
If you could produce a volume that covers the disposition of locomotives since their removal from the Centrals and any movements to date, inclusive of mechanical condition and potential sales-related information, it would fill a very pressing need.

Good hunting!
Glenn
Author:  christensenge [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
Bartman-TN wrote:
The NRHS Bulletin had a two-part article on the railways of Cuba in Number 3 and 4 in 2003 - more than 100 pages in total with lots of photos.. #3 dealt with the main railroads while #4 dealt with the sugar cane and steam operations. I was one of the authors and reported from several trips at the time. This might be a good base to compare what it is like 15 years later.
Bart Jennings


Hi Bart,

Are either of your articles available for sale? I would pay for electronic or photocopied copies.

Thanks,
Glenn
Author:  Dave [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
More to the point - unsure of the prospective changes in our current work to open Cuba to business with us in the next administration, but if things continue to progress, who's interested in working to develop historic tourist lines in Cuba?
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
Nobody with a modicum of business sense, until the Castros and their Communist Party legacy that is lavishly enriched by foreign transactions are dead, demolished, buried, and repudiated.

That will be quite a while, I fear.
Author:  perudale [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
The last two years for working steam were in 2002-2003 in which I visited with two US tours. Soon after the Ministry of Sugar started the whole sale destruction of sugar mills for scrap and much of the sugar mill trackage. Almost all the narrow gauge started to shutdown soon after these years with several closed earlier. The Cubans ran the American steam and few remaining diesels and RDCs to trashed out. Great plans (Tourism Ministry) believed steam tourist railroads would survive in selected sites. The rest of the various steam was rounded up and brought to Havana and put into compounds.

Since then a influx of used American passenger cars, GE diesels from Mexico and various other European equipment was shipped to Cuba. Most were older trainsets that were standard and including wide gauge Spanish DMU's that needed to be regauged. Now a influx of Chinese diesels and passenger cars are now arriving. Usually the equipment is trashed to death then set aside.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
I would seriously question whether the boilers on these steam survivors would come up to U.S. standards by this time. My gut reaction would be those retired locomotives would be "steaming grenades".
Author:  Dave [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
Why would Cuban operators care about US standards?
Author:  Frisco1522 [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
While it would be nice to bring the Baldwins home, can you imagine how worn out and beat to death they are? I'm sure the only maintenance done was to get another day out of them. Boilers must be pretty on the inside too.
Better bring a boatload of money with them if you get them unless you want to stuff and mount.
Author:  christensenge [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: American steam in Cuba
Hi Guys,

I am reminded of the phrase, "Everything is a negotiation."

The miracle is that these locomotives exist at all.

Questions like: What is their availability? How much as is? How to transport? How much to transport? What are we getting them for? How much to restore? Where is the money coming from? Who are the salient parties? What are the laws? Etc ... Etc ... Etc ... Are all valid questions and will have to be asked and answered before any deal can be struck.

The question, "Is it possible" must be answered last, after the other questions have been answered. Such is the negotiation process.


My thoughts,
Glenn
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