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| Smokebox Interior Protection http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40204 |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Smokebox Interior Protection |
Hello Friends, I'm interested in hearing what, if anything, you are doing to prevent deterioration of the interior of you coal-burning steam locomotive's smoke box. I can't imagine coatings service more harsh than the interior of a smokebox of a working steam locomotive. Thanks, |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
I know of no way to protect the smokebox in operation, and by rights it is under the least attack while in operation anyway. Allowing the smokebox interior to be wet while in storage is the kiss of death for corrosion. Cleaning out piles of soot and capping the stack if left outside will make all the difference. |
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| Author: | Doug Debs 2472 [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
Smokeboxes get hot inside and out. Regular paint cooks off. On SP 2472 (an oil burner), the smokebox exterior was painted with high-temp aluminum paint directly onto "bare" (well, at least thoroughly wirebrushed) steel. We used Hy-Tech INSL-X Hi-Temp #AL-2402 http://www.hytechsales.com/prod2402.html. It is expensive. The smokebox exterior was painted was 11 years ago, and the paint has has held up in both service and continuous outdoor storage. The biggest problem we had is that Hy-Tech shipped the 1-gallon cans in flimsy cardboard boxes with only thin styrofoam padding at the ends. Result: Every shipment arrived with at least one can - sometimes every can - dented and leaking. (I don't know if Hy-Tech has since improved their shipment packaging...) The silver paint on the smokebox sides was overcoated with traditional graphite paint. SP applied graphite paint to directly to hot surfaces such as smokebox exteriors and firebox exteriors. This looks nice so long as the engine stays hot most of the time. But graphite paint alone does not provide much rust protection when the boiler is cold. Hence the use of high-temp aluminum paint underneath. I suspect that the best smokebox interior protection, in addition to keeping it clean and dry, is to sandblast to bare steel ("white metal"), then apply high-temp paint. Possibly high-temp paint with ceramic beads would survive the abrasive effects of coal cinders best of all. - Doug Debs |
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| Author: | SantaFe158 [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
We made up some stainless steel baffle panels as an experiment for one of our locomotives when the front end had to be torn out to do some dry pipe work last year. The steel panels that had been installed less than 10 years prior had badly deteriorated and were basically just usable for getting dimensions when they were removed. So far they've been holding up pretty well. Everything is stainless except for the screens, which are regular steel mounted in stainless frames so they can be removed and replaced when worn out. Brass hardware was used because the steel hardware had eroded so badly that most of it had to be cut out because wrenches were just slipping. With the brass hardware, theoretically you can just have at it with a chisel and a hammer to break the bolts with a little less hassle. As I said, this was pretty much an experiment and only applies to the panels inside, but it's made it through one operating season without a problem, only time will tell. |
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| Author: | Lincoln Penn [ Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
Whether coal or oil fired, the best that can be done is to shovel and ShopVac the accumulated sand/cinders out of the smokebox whenever you have the door open. That stuff lies there wet and simply eats the metal. Painting or coating is a waste of time and money, IMO. |
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| Author: | Russ Fischer [ Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
Jake's comment about using stainless steel in the front end got me to thinking about that as an option. I am not thinking of building the entire smoke box out of stainless, but perhaps, the floor plate, baffles, and cyclone or screens. Other than the expense, is there some mechanical properties about stainless steel that would make it unsuitable in the long term? For example, would it be more susceptible to erosion form the scouring of cinders or react poorly to the corrosive compounds in the cinders? I would be interested to hear how this works out after a few operating seasons. |
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| Author: | Rick Rowlands [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
Looking at some PRR locomotive test plant data on a K2sa running at 205 psi, smoke box temps were in the 500 to 600 degree range with a couple top end temps in the low 700s. Those temps are perfectly suitable for 304 and 316 stainless and is well below the point at which scaling begins, and also below the point at which intergranular corrosion becomes a factor. What effect combusion gases have I do not know, but I would surmise 304 would fare better than mild carbon steel. I have some bits and pieces of stainless screening and angle laying around, probably enough to build 58's screens out of. I may just experiment with it as Jake has done. |
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| Author: | dinwitty [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
The only other thing I can think of is a remetal treatment or make some kind of designed replaceable barrier of metal like driver tires have, just tossing ideas out for haggling on... 8-D |
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| Author: | whodom [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
If 300 series stainless steel turns out to be suitable material, thin sheets could be used to "line" the interior of the smoke box by spot-welding to the interior. |
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| Author: | SantaFe158 [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
Russ Fischer wrote: Jake's comment about using stainless steel in the front end got me to thinking about that as an option. I am not thinking of building the entire smoke box out of stainless, but perhaps, the floor plate, baffles, and cyclone or screens. Other than the expense, is there some mechanical properties about stainless steel that would make it unsuitable in the long term? For example, would it be more susceptible to erosion form the scouring of cinders or react poorly to the corrosive compounds in the cinders? I would be interested to hear how this works out after a few operating seasons. This topic came up during a discussion with a coworker today and it reminded me of my post in this thread. During the winter of 2016 we experimentally installed stainless steel baffle panels and screen frames in the smokebox of our small 4-4-0 “Edison” at Greenfield Village. Having operated with this arrangement for two seasons and working through a third as we speak, I haven’t seen any noticeable deterioration of the panels or hardware (brass). I believe the steel panels they replaced were pushing 10 years old when they were removed, so there was a bit more time for deterioration. So far the stainless panels still seem promising. |
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| Author: | Frisco1522 [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
whodom wrote: If 300 series stainless steel turns out to be suitable material, thin sheets could be used to "line" the interior of the smoke box by spot-welding to the interior. I think corrosive material could get between the steel smokebox exterior and the stainless liner and do bad things. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
dinwitty wrote: The only other thing I can think of is... make some kind of designed replaceable barrier of metal They have, it's called a smoke box. It rusts out, and you replace it. |
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smokebox Interior Protection |
The Dampney corporation developed a product for steam locomotive smokebox interiors. It's still available, used primarily for scrubber interiors at coal burning plants. However, a properly cared for locomorive generally doesn't have smoke box rot issues. Just gotta keep it dry when not in use! Cheers |
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