On page 64 of the February 2016 issue of Trains there is a discussion of why some lines painted the roofs of their steam loco cab red. The author of the response says "The cab roofs of some steam locomotives were painted red by certain railroads, both as a matter of style choice and also so the engines of a particular railroad could be easily spotted when they were working in large rail yards that handled several railroads." I certainly understand the style choice part of this response, but has anyone ever heard the last part about crews spotting their locos by the color of the roof mentioned anywhere? I can't see where crews could expect to have an overhead view or where this would matter at night, in bad weather, and why the numbers and railroad markings on the locos wouldn't be all they needed. There have been two threads about this on rypn in the past and such a thought was never mentioned. And as red cab roofs were rather common it is easy to see that locos from two or more such lines would be in the same place if they shared a common engine terminal.

Probably talking about a yardmaster sitting in his tower with somewhat of a birds-eye
view of the yard. Locomotives in a yard track surrounded by other cars could only be identified by the general shape of the top of the boiler or by a colored cab roof.

I seriously doubt that was a reason though, as some roads painted all cab roofs red, even passenger power that would never wind up working in the middle of a freight yard.

Besides, after a couple of trips or months, the roof wasn't red any more anyway.

Well, under the soot and grime maybe.....

If the locomotive had a canvas covering that might of been a paint more specific to the canvas? My real guess it was just a choice someone somewhere made in what color to use. Pretty sure the C&NW #1385 had a canvas roof covering over the wood originally and am pretty sure the C&NW painted the cab roofs red. But then again maybe they did for a while and then changed? Not 100% on the color?

I always thought that the red cab roofs were red primer or red "lead" and not a finish coat. Cab roofs would take a lot of wear from soot, cinders, weather, etc. and if painted black, the primer would start showing through giving a "ratty" appearance. Just easier to leave them in primer. My thoughts only.

Les

Termite 7 enjoys looking closely at old photographs and real photo postcards of locomotives, railroad cars and depots. The thing that he has learned is that as many "rules" as you read about...there were certainly a lot of variations. I would hold up SR as a fine example...I have seen all number of variety of paint schemes and safety appliance placement on early steamers. I have seen fireboxes in silver, black and apparently dark grey. Pictures of apparently green 0-6-0's, green consolidations...even a green 0-8-0. I have a card showing an SR consolidation with deer antlers on the high-mounted headlight.

So...I would assume that a lot of the "standards" we hear about are random and entirely up to the engine foreman's discretion. Maybe some railroads (like PRR?) were more rigid about these standards...but maybe not.

T7

My understanding of the issue--and, indeed, it could be little more than fanciful legend--is that red oxide paint held up better to the abuse of cinders, tree branches, weather, etc. than other available paint pigments. It is also the reason barns, and probably cabooses, were "traditionally" painted red......

Seemed like on the Frisco, most of the passenger engines had red cab roofs and a lot of the Southwestern (OK,TX) engines both freight and passenger. Maybe it was a division specific thing and in the case of the passenger engines just eye candy.
I always saw it as Red Lead or Red Oxide primer, but an old timer once told me it was signal red.
We painted 1522's cab roof with Pepsi Cola Red initially.

I suspect it was simply because - "that's the way we've always done it." On some roads it was an accepted practice, kind of like red wheel centers in Europe.

A hundred or more years ago, paints were often chosen not for the color, but for other properties, with color being a secondary consideration. A couple of possible initial reasons dating to antiquity come to mind...

1. Wood cabs had wood roofs, which had to be covered with something. Terracotta red was a common color for canvas roofs, back in the day.
2. Were any of these roofs ever covered with sheet copper? Copper was sometimes used instead of canvas on wood passenger cars of the same period. Copper would hold up to the hot cinders much better than canvas. Now, is it possible that red lead paint bonded exceptionally well to copper?

Red paint was red not because people like that color but rather because it was a naturally occurring color of the typical home made protective coating "back in the day".



http://www.grit.com/departments/why-are-barns-red.aspx

You are correct about the red oxide primer, which gets its color in much the same fashion. I've heard a few theories, the ones that seem most logical to me are that it doesn't change color much when scratched, and that not painting the cab roof black helps keep it a bit cooler. Silver would be even better but in this case, they simply leave it painted in primer, which saves costs.

Southern's specs were cab roof black (passenger included) and tender top red. Graham Claytor wanted 4501's cab roof red, along with all the other engines in the excursion program. Today 630 and 4501's cab roof's are black, 630's tender is red while 4501's is black. Also I am curious about the green 2-8-0, 0-6-0, and 0-8-0 that was mentioned earlier, are there any pictures available? Mark Ray had spoken on an earlier thread about a possibility that there was a southern 2-8-2 painted green and gold. To add on to the cab roof, Wilmington and Western just painted 98's cab roof red as well.

One of Don Ball's Pennsy shots includes a freshly refurbished T1 in a long locomotive line, showing the inside of the stack to have been painted in red oxide as well. Scanning down the line, you see certain classes as carrying red, while other never were touched.

Some of those red cab roofs were too shiny to be primer. At least they were when fresh from painting.

I might be able to provide photos of green SR freight locomotives. While the photos are black and white, I would say the chance of them being green is 50%. For the switchers, I remember reading in some Ties issue (SR historical society) that switchers assigned to passenger terminals could at times be found in green. For the consolidation, I am not sure the photo is of a green one. In my photo collection, it is the only possibility I have. A general rule I have found with SR steam is that when the SR herald appears on the cab and cylinder jacket, there is a good chance it can be wearing a green paint scheme. This can be contradicted however, as it can possibly be the black lined paint scheme (not too common, but my favorite).

Sorry about the slight tangent. Now when it comes to red cabs, southern154 mentioned that SR steam had black roofs, but again there seem to be exceptions to this rule! Again, I remember reading a Ties article in which it said that either the Pegram or Furgeson shops was known to occasionally paint cab roofs red. As with many railroads, I really believe that the chances a roof could be red were up to the painter. Sometimes the man in charge may have felt like painting a red roof instead of black. When it comes to the SR, I dont think we will ever fully know the exact truth to the rule!


I know the second photo is very grainy, but I believe I can make out a tint of red in between the rain gutters/water shields on the cab roof. This is based on the idea the tender deck is red, meaning the cab is red since they both appear to be the same color in the photo.

I see what you mean! Southern deviated from their "specs" much of the time. An engine found on the Knoxville Division would be very different then say one on the Asheville. Standard practice for the headlight was 3 inches below center, but in many instances it was much higher, paint specs varied from division! I would love to find an old shop foreman for Southern and get his take, alas it is a fading generation.