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 Post subject: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8029
Location: Baltimore, MD
I'm...............

I'm jes' a-gonna leave this here without comment.

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-new ... l-to-do-so

Quote:
PHOENICIA, N.Y. >> Despite lacking permission from the town of Shandaken, the Catskill Mountain Railroad has moved some train cars onto land the railroad owns in the hamlet of Phoenicia.

The move apparently was done under the cover of darkness late Sunday.

Faced with a Jan. 29 deadline to remove its equipment from tracks in Shandaken that are owned by Ulster County, the railroad — which until last fall offered scenic train rides between Mount Tremper and Phoenicia — sought the town’s permission to use for storage its own 2.5-acre parcel in Phoenicia that borders the county right-of-way.

It became clear at the town Planning Board’s Jan. 11 meeting, though, that permission would not be granted before the deadline.

In the meantime, railroad volunteers were clearing the Phoenicia site, cutting trees, leveling the ground and putting down a type of crushed stone used for parking lots and driveways.

Doing so did not violate any town regulations, said Shandaken Code Enforcement Officer Warren Tutt, but it worried people who lived near the site.

Then last week, neighbors noticed volunteers placing railroad tracks on the property, though only lying on top of the ground and not permanently installed. When asked about the tracks on Friday, volunteers said they were part of the cleanup effort.

But on Sunday, railroad volunteers installed connector lines that linked their newly laid tracks to the county’s line. And as darkness fell, they drove their trains off the county line and onto the tracks on their own property, then they disengaged the connector lines and put the county’s track back the way it was.


More at the link.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 941
Location: Leicester, MA.
Well they were bound to piss someone off eventually...

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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 1892
they are getting placed between a rock and a hard place. They had the agreement till someone whined and the town changed it.

expect a lawsuit, it'll take a judge.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 96
Quote:
At a special meeting of the Shandaken Town Board Monday afternoon, Supervisor Rob Stanley said that the town’s zoning code does not address trains, so it appeared no rules were violated.

“That’s the quandary,” he said. “What’s the violation?”

The board then went into a closed-door session to discuss possible litigation in the matter. But afterward, Stanley said all the town plans to do at this point is ask the railroad to provide, in writing, “a strict timeline for removal of the cars.”

“We are not taking legal action at this time,” he said.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:47 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 1892
train guy wrote:
Quote:
At a special meeting of the Shandaken Town Board Monday afternoon, Supervisor Rob Stanley said that the town’s zoning code does not address trains, so it appeared no rules were violated.

“That’s the quandary,” he said. “What’s the violation?”

The board then went into a closed-door session to discuss possible litigation in the matter. But afterward, Stanley said all the town plans to do at this point is ask the railroad to provide, in writing, “a strict timeline for removal of the cars.”

“We are not taking legal action at this time,” he said.


I can't find the infinity graphic for this board...


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:46 pm
Posts: 226
It's their cars and their property. What's the big deal?

Oh, wait. The trail people and the local governments want the CMRR erased from Phoenicia.

They don't want any permanent reminders of a successful tourist train operation.

Just forget the *25 years* of tourism dollars the CMRR brought to Phoenicia.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 132
thebigham wrote:


They don't want any permanent reminders of a successful tourist train operation.

Just forget the *25 years* of tourism dollars the CMRR brought to Phoenicia.


That's why bigham I don't exactly support Democrats here in NY state (no offense). They seem to be against everything and everyone that supports historic preservation specifically tourist railroads in particular. If only we had more sensible legislators around these days like Terry Bernardo but the chances of that are very low. Maybe the CMRR should have one of its own running in the next election it's probably their best bet,

Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:46 pm
Posts: 226
This is not a Republican/Democrat problem!

Michael Hein is a Republican. Terry Beranrdo is a Republican.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 323
Take the 'R' vs. 'D' out of the discussion. Instead, understand that local politics is the issue, and one possible way to get the solution you want, either get into politics and/or work with the political system to bring about the change you want.

I'm recalling a recent Trains magazine article which talked about Class One railroads and how at one point a certain Class One's management was stymied by existing regulations (laws) governing mergers. Solution: they got the law changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 132
thebigham wrote:
This is not a Republican/Democrat problem!

Michael Hein is a Republican. Terry Beranrdo is a Republican.


Hein is actually a Democrat and has been quite active in local politics for some time now. I'm not calling out any party but it's something I've noticed ever since he turned against the railroad. There has been a steady trend by the state party to oppose preservation activities specifically those pertaining to railroads and I find it sickening. Whenever we try to get something done down here someone has to become involved and raise a red flag I don't get it. Maybe the CMRR should market itself as an "eco-friendly" business as well as do away everything to do with steam power, these bureaucrats just don't give up easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:55 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8029
Location: Baltimore, MD
Gentlemen(?):

Analysis of specific politicians and political committees as they relate to specific preservation projects is allowable, within reason and with discretion.

Broad-brush, blanket accusations against entire political parties, states, etc. add nothing to the discussion and foment our country's current mode of division, spite, and malice towards one another. And epithets like "libt*rd" just mke the user appear to be a seven-year-old in a schoolyard.

Knock it off.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:29 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 7
Live in NY for a while you will become a discontented too.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:41 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 296
Location: NJ
On the "freight could have been brought back to the line" comment. There is nothing, absolutely nothing in the way of industry along that line outside of Kingston proper. Had there been any chance it would have occurred in the last 35+ years. New York City and the state have continually discouraged any large scale development along the line as most of it is in an area it is the aquifer for NYC. Less developed property = less water treatment.

Additionally there just isn't that much traffic on the roadways in the area. So IMHO there is no need at this time to take trucks off the roadway.

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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:17 am
Posts: 116
Location: New York
CMRR had a customer in Kingston about 20 years ago, long since gone. Conrail took out the switch to the mainline in 1996 since the bill to pay for the upkeep got "lost." Other interest has come and gone, but don't ever count on any kind of freight service saving this line...

Regarding the Phoenicia situation, the county wants the CMRR trains gone because if they stay there, it raises the spectre that some day train service could return! And that's the last thing the county wants. One one railroad operator bid on the Phoenicia segment, and that was CMRR. RailExplorers USA is not a railroad operator, but installing them forces out CMRR. The railbikes have lower capacity and lower demand, which will help "prove" the county's case that operation of the segment is unprofitable. The county will allow the Phoenicia segment to fall further into disrepair (since now the country alone is responsible for maintenance and repair), so even if CMRR wanted to resume train service, it would be a very expensive proposition to do so. In my opinion, a carefully hatched plan by the county government, using local city government to do their dirty work.

-otto-

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Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum, Rochester, N.Y.


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 Post subject: Re: Catskill Mountain RR Moves Stock to Phoenicia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:31 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 1892
cjvrr wrote:
On the "freight could have been brought back to the line" comment. There is nothing, absolutely nothing in the way of industry along that line outside of Kingston proper. Had there been any chance it would have occurred in the last 35+ years. New York City and the state have continually discouraged any large scale development along the line as most of it is in an area it is the aquifer for NYC. Less developed property = less water treatment.

Additionally there just isn't that much traffic on the roadways in the area. So IMHO there is no need at this time to take trucks off the roadway.


In a previous thread I indicated with a link that the aquifier lakes have a bigger problem with storm runoff than any man made issue. They have to do some level of purification at the end anyways or the water is totally unuseable. You have fish, life, bacterial to deal with before you go drinking it. the politicians fears are grossly out of proportion to the reality.

They seem to be worried about an engine falling over into the lake spilling fuel, and I suggested they change the method of propulsion to electric. Talk to the nearby streetcar museum.

The trains seem to be very popular.


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