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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
Posts: 521
Bdesantis5629 wrote:
Hello

Me and a group of friends have decided to form a trust to rebuild GTW 5629 from the rails up...

If you can, please spread the word about the 5629 trust.


Have you applied and received 501c3 tax exempt status and do you have a business plan?

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 40
Sue Metra for the cost of a new 5629. Have the perpetrators pay restitution for their actions. That would give a lot of satisfaction.

Just wishful thinking, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 36
The statute of limitations has LONG since run out on the 5629 and METRA. A new build is not in the cards, even though I love those GTW pacifics. It makes lots of sense to work with the City of Durand about leasing and rebuilding their 5632. After 50+ years outdoors, it is pretty rough but that fact may interest the City to talk to a prospective rebuilder. Don't forget that the city is very heavily invested in the Durand Union Station and that probably soaks up all available cash and grants they can generate. You are going to need a cooperative shortline and maybe you should work with SRI at nearby Owosso. The about- to- commence requirements for PTC will be a new, added burden for the prospective mainline operator and that could be $100,000 per locomotive.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
Any work you and volunteers can do will reduce the costs. Some costs you cannot get around. But there are plenty of money making platforms including the ole donation coffer, get your word out and find support.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:57 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Honesdale, PA
Howard P. wrote:
One big, unanswered question: Where will it operate?

NS steam operations are limited; a couple of proven engines and their proven crews are given a few days a year out on the mainline.

CSX: fugeddaboutit.

UP: Their own brand only.

BNSF: See NS, above.

KCS: Unknown. (or at least, not publicized)

Anyone that has a steam locomotive thst wants to run it, I have rhe RR.

GNWR shortlines and regionals: See CSX, above. And, they keep gobbling up more "independents" (P&W in New England, recently).

So, once again, Where will it operate?

There is plenty to accomplish in the heritage and steam railway field, plenty of already-existing, deserving projects and organizations. Why consider rebuilding 5629? Because it was a sad story? A tragic case of someone not knowing when to step aside and let others take care of an artifact? The story is compelling, but I can't see it raising multi-millions.

Someone who used to post on this board (and rather thoughtfully, too) wrote the real epitaph for 5629, shortly after it was reduced to #1 grade heavy melting scrap: "5629's fate was sealed the day it was sold to an individual with limited resources."

Howard P.


You have the locomotive, I have a RR!


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:12 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 219
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Losing GTW 5629 back in July of 1987 was a total Tragedy. It didn't help that a stubborn old man wouldn't do anything about. IRM offer help to once. Metra only did the scrapping because it wasn't off their property. I'm sure since lost of 5629, getting a steamer out of harm's way is much more reasonable now, especially in this day or modern communication.

Now should we rebuild another GTW 5629 from scratch, I would say YES! and by Steel Made In The USA. Of course that's IF your group has the $$$ to do so. Right the be PRR T1 group is slowly putting their steamer together right. There are the other 2 GTW Pacific Survivors: 5030 & 5632

GTW 5030
- Ownership: City Of Jackson, Michigan
- Location: R.A. Green Park in Jackson, Michigan.
- Maintained: City Parks & Rec of Jackson
- Condition: D to E Rating, Lots-O-Things Broken, Missing Pieces, & Weather Damage
- Latest Info: City Of Jackson had wanted to move 5030 over to the Michigan Central Depot and be "Cosmetically Restored". Another proposal was to donated the steamer to the JAIL (Jackson & Lansing Railroad) for use on their line out of Jackson.

Here's my video of GTW 5030 from 2015...

Grand Trunk Western 5030 (Park Tour), 08-17-2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4jfhU5W8iQ

GTW 5632
- Ownership: City of Durand, Michigan
- Location: Iron Horse Park in Durand, Michigan.
- Maintained: National Railroad Memorial Inc.
- Condition: B to C Rating, Has Been Repainted, Has Parts Intact Still, & Less Damage
- Latest Info: City Of Durand & The NRMI group are trying to incorporate 5632 was part of a national railroad memorial park. They also wanted to move the steamer & baggage car closer to the Durand Union Station. SRI (PM 1225) had offered to restored the steamer at one point, and they had 5632 wanted to be their Middle-Sized steamer. PM 1225 (Largest) & MSRW 76 (Smallest). Also there's an old rivalry between the cities of Durand & Owosso. Durand was the GTW town, while Owosso was the Ann Arbor town. I'm sure it's friendly by today's standards, but understanding not wanting to lose their steamer to their rival town.

Here's my video of GTW 5632 from 2015...

Grand Trunk Western 5632 (Park Tour + Baggage Car), 05-17-2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iafwkwSpfUw

Enjoy! ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:36 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3731
Location: Maine
From these two video inspections, it's obvious 5632 is the locomotive in better condition and a much better candidate for operational restoration. Since that is unlikely, efforts should be made to put her under a full-length shed and keep her painted or touched-up annually. There's a good locomotive in that park.

"Most in need of a friend" or "most likely to face disaster" would be 5030. There is more in place than we found on MEC 470 when we got her out of the park, but it remains whether the asbestos lagging has come off. If a group wants to focus on not repeating the loss of 5629, this locomotive needs a concerted effort from a well organized committee of determined people. It will only be so much time before some "do-gooders", without any idea of her historic role, will demand the eyesore removed.

Don't waste time or money rebuilding a locomotive lost in a true tragedy. You have your focus in preserving one of these.

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4996
Dick -

GTW 5632 is probably the "better" of the two surviving Grand Trunk Western 4-6-2's and is similar to GTW 5629. The big difference is its all weather cab. But if 5632 might also be "better looking" than J-3a class 5030, I think that the later makes more sense to restore. That is because the J-3a class was quite often used in freight service by the GTW, besides running on passenger trains. I have seen photos of the class on freights, operating in both Michigan and Indiana, and 5030 itself, in and around South Bend. I would hope that someone restores the engine. She doesn't seem to have been very well cared for at its current park location there in Jackson.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:40 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Hamilton, Illinois
Les, I agree -- 5030 would be a great engine to see restored to operation! I have a personal attachment to 5030, since she was the second steam engine I rode in (after NYC H-10 2345 circa 1946 at Jackson, Michigan). In 1951, 5030 was pinch-hitting for the usual Consolidation on the local freight through Bellevue, Michigan, and I, as a teenager I was observing trackside with my dad's old Kodak folding cartridge camera that used size 116 film. The enginemen invited me into the cab, and I rode for a few switching moves. This photo of 5030 is probably my oldest venture in rail photography!

5030 is a historic locomotive, having been involved in the famous Knights Templar Special wreck (http://www.shiawasseehistory.com/ktwreck.html) of 1923. Also, as you point out, the GTW used these older Pacifics in local and branch line freight service, and as a lighter engine she would able to operate across a larger sample of the North American rail system than, say, Big Boy 4014!


Attachments:
gtw5030.jpg
gtw5030.jpg [ 113 KiB | Viewed 1204 times ]

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Last edited by rlsteam on Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3731
Location: Maine
The story of the wreck is an amazing piece of history, and connected to this locomotive, makes a stronger case to preserve it. There is significant human connection, and the connection to the Knights Templar and the community, build a nice reason to support some kind of restoration. There are people involved in restoration who can help you build you organization. Not easy work, not paying work, but significant and rewarding.
I should emphasize, there are no silver bullets here, so be prepared for what you are wading into.

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 36
IMHO: the City of Jackson would be much more likely to let the 5030 go, a largely forgotten eyesore at the sewer treatment plant. Durand likely has a much stronger emotional attachment to their Pacific, and I am not a bit surprised that if it goes anywhere from being adjacent to the water tower - they would want to see it go fairly close to the Durand Union Station.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:32 pm
Posts: 6
Hello all-

Although I haven't been replying, I have read Avery reply. Thank you all for the support and criticism. I have looked into engines to restore. So far the top 2 engines that look like 5629 are ACL 1504 and B&M 750. Both, however, have owners and are being restored. The chance of getting them to just hand it over are very unlikely. The rest on display are either in too poor condition or have very protective owners. Besides, it's wouldn't be right seing 5629 and thinking, "oh wait, that's not actually 5629. That's a different engine mocked up as her". I am also currently looking for a place to build/keep her, and a place to run her


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1241
Location: Strasburg, PA
Bdesantis5629 wrote:
The rest on display are either in too poor condition or have very protective owners.

An engine in "too poor condition" is still way better than starting from nothing.


Bdesantis5629 wrote:
Besides, it's wouldn't be right seing 5629 and thinking, "oh wait, that's not actually 5629. That's a different engine mocked up as her".

Wouldn't your replica qualify as "a different engine mocked up as her" as well?

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3731
Location: Maine
Your best bet is to let go of 5629, and either fix your eyes on one or the other GTW Pacifics. Nothing worth doing comes easy. I'd opt for the Pacific in poorer condition and begin a legacy of your own. The locomotive and a huge number of preservationists will thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:16 pm 

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 8:35 pm
Posts: 199
Okay; so I watched the U tube video Of GTW #5030 expecting to see this piece of junk steam locomotive. Instead, I'm left wondering "That's bad !?" Sure, it needs a coat of paint, and the cab is rotting out, and it's missing some hardware but I fail to see how that makes it in terrible condition ? If you want to see crap rescued, I'll show you some RR signals that were restored after laying in a ditch somewhere for 50 years.
Shouldn't we concentrate on preserving the 2 GTW 4-6-2's that still exist ? Not every steam locomotive that still survives needs to steam again; just be presented like it was worth something.
Look at the "Lost Engines of Roanoke". Now if anything looked like junk: And from that arose a Baldwin diesel that looks fantastic as well as a 4-8-0. More to follow.

Kevin K.


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