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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 391
Ad to the list of late fireless operators...the ET RR (aka ET&WNC) in conjunction with Bemberg Rayon Plant in Elizabethton, TN. I saw that fireless in regular service in at least 1981...it may have lasted even longer. The rayon plant charged the engine and the ETRR crews used it for plant switching. It was painted in a simple "Bicentenial" scheme at that time (only fireless to receive a Bicentenial paint scheme)?
I had a foamer friend visit me from PA and I told him what I wanted to show him..."no, no" he says..."there's no more steam in regular service". well it was a foggy morning and when we pulled into the parking lot there she sat...with steam leaking from some valves and her headlight burning through the fog. You have never heard a Leica being clicked so fast in your life.
I am pretty certain that engine was saved and on display somewhere...maybe in Elizabethton?
T7


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:23 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 1096
The Porter fireless is still at Elizibethton.

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomo ... splay=1145


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:18 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1954
Location: Strasburg, PA
mjanssen wrote:
In the case of a fireless, especially in drought areas,

I expect that D&S is wishing they could make that work about now.

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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2232
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
North American Rayon in Elizabethton, TN did indeed use a Porter 0-6-0 fireless until about 1990. It's on display across town now, under cover. I saw her running several times in my youth.
As it ran in interchange with ET&WNC 207 and 208 (now known as Southern RR 630 and 722) as late as 1967, I think this was the last spot in America where steam from two companies ran in interchange.

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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Kelly Anderson wrote:
mjanssen wrote:
In the case of a fireless, especially in drought areas,

I expect that D&S is wishing they could make that work about now.


You think you could build them a fireless with the range and power of a narrow-gauge 2-8-2 or two? If so, where do they put the high-pressure boilers to feed them?

I'm sitting in a state that has effectively all but banned smoking outside a building (and not a public building, naturally) or closed car because of the drought fire danger, but still I have to yield to physics here.....


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:21 pm
Posts: 1
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I came late to the party and this thread is full of GOOD stuff...

After all the horror stories of 1472 inspection/restoration to operational service taking many years if at all, I am convinced that the best, most economical way to put new steam on a tourist railroad is to go fireless. (Also they're easier to run, and it will be easier to service a separate boiler). However, they seem to be a rare breed out there.

Would you recommend just plugging through all the sightings on steamlocomotive.com starting close to our tracks here in SE Michigan and working out farther until finding one available? Or, is there a "fireless-for-sale" list somewhere that I'm missing?

Thanks for all your advice :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:41 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Well, there was a candidate in SE Michigan in the 1980s that was still operating daily, at the Pennwalt plant around Monroe. I photographed it in operation in March of 1983 from a public street (and the security guard at a gate wasn't too happy about that). Not very big, but could probably handle 3 coaches on level track. Anyone know if it still exists?


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 23
.
Ted_Delphia wrote:
After all the horror stories of 1472 inspection/restoration to operational service taking many years if at all, I am convinced that the best, most economical way to put new steam on a tourist railroad is to go fireless. (Also they're easier to run, and it will be easier to service a separate boiler).


Fireless locomotives are still subject to the same FRA inspections that regular steam locomotives are, so they won't be exempt from meeting applicable 1472 SDI requirements.

I've also seen very few fireless cookers that have had their lagging removed from the boiler, and those that have been abated are deeply corroded from time spend outdoors with it on. I would suspect serious repairs would likely be needed if not a new vessel in any case.

It's been discussed already in this thread, but fireless engines were built for a specific task, and didn't venture very far, nor were they overly powerful. Would love to see or help make an operational fireless happen, but it wouldn't be
useful for much more than puffing back and forth in a yard with a couple of cars for a few hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5934
Location: southeastern USA
Yet there are ways to package heat that have been discussed on the SteamTech list from time to time. I don't think we'll see long distance heavy freight drags powered by fireless, but in light service it could be possible - but not like the historical examples. Hope Overmod can chime in with more detailed information.

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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 228
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
We have been asked many times if our fireless at the Niagara Railway Museum Inc. (one of only 2 actual fireless locomotives preserved in Canada) could be operated on air. Yeah, it probably could, but after decades of sitting outside with no care given, Not really sure I would want to risk anything. Plus, it's a very rare 30" gauge, so we'd have to built a separate track to operate it on. This particular unit was built by Porter in July 1943.


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:42 am
Posts: 407
Location: Haslett, Michigan USA
Paul,

I believe it was the Pennwalt fireless (from Wyandotte, not Monroe) that I saw in Carson City, Michigan on the end of the T&SB Rwy. branch around 1990. There were a couple package boilers sitting next to it, which suggested someone had a fantasy. It's been gone for decades. I think I've been told it still exists, but can't remember where.

I also believe either this one or the Hercules Powder fireless at Harbor Beach got a bicentennial paint scheme. That engine is in a park in Harbor Beach.

Sorry,
Aarne Frobom
Thermal, Michigan


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 537
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Aarne:
I last saw the ex-Pennwalt Heisler 0-4-0F on display at Rachel's Depot Restaurant, 1781 Rails End Blvd, Caro, MI on my way back to VRR after loading up wheel sets from a scrapped (lounge?) car at Saginaw a few years ago. I believe (read: hope) it is still there.
Be well & be safe,
J.David


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1372
Aarne H. Frobom wrote:
Paul,

I believe it was the Pennwalt fireless (from Wyandotte, not Monroe) that I saw in Carson City, Michigan on the end of the T&SB Rwy. branch around 1990. There were a couple package boilers sitting next to it, which suggested someone had a fantasy. It's been gone for decades. I think I've been told it still exists, but can't remember where.

I also believe either this one or the Hercules Powder fireless at Harbor Beach got a bicentennial paint scheme. That engine is in a park in Harbor Beach.

Sorry,
Aarne Frobom
Thermal, Michigan

Just saw a post reported to be on that engine on fb around a month ago: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 1364025770

"Went on a little scavenger hunt the other day. My journey around the Bay area and into the Thumb wasn't much for sightseeing (Munger smells like potatoes). However, I was looking for something specific. I found it! Next to what is now a restaurant just outside of Caro is a little fireless steam locomotive! This one last resided over in Carson City and last I know ran on air about 30 years ago. It ended up on display here shortly after that. Despite its current state, wouldn't be tough to make it look nice! Actually wouldn't take much to restore either since the pressure vessel has no tubes and the whole thing could run on air pressure. Also, there's a Grand Trunk caboose and a speeder car on the other side of the building."


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:06 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 1096
From a Heisler fireless flyer: Hauls of several miles and trailing loads of hundreds of tons offer no difficulty for the larger sizes.
Heisler fireless locos were designed to charge at 185 to 350 psi. The cylinders ran at 60 psi and the engine could run at 20 psi. A 35 ton 0-4-0 had about 11,000 pounds of te.


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 Post subject: Re: Use of Fireless Locomotives in Museum Service
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:01 pm
Posts: 131
It appears that Rachel’s Depot is closed permanently, Yelp has them listed as such and their phone is disconnected. This fireless locomotive might just be looking for a savior. If anyone is interested, it couldn’t hurt to make some inquiries.

Roger


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