So I am trying to fix a leak.

Made a new gasket for the base but is there supposed to be a gasket or oring maybe on this shaft where the groove is?

I am not finding much information on the old google search unless i missed it.


Thanks
Bill

This is a repeating bell ringer?

In what way does it leak?

Oops! Sorry. Nope. Changed the subject header.

Sander valve out of a GE 45 ton. It leaks around the stem.

Had ringer and bells on my mind when I posted. No wonder it won't ring. LoL.

Is it leaking when in the off position? The reason I ask is that the valve has a built in tell-tale leak in either sanding position to let you know it's been shifted out of the off position.

It leaks around the stem, in what position?

Many sander and whistle valves had no packing around the stem. Therefore, when actuated there is a slight leak around the stem, controlled only by the fit between the stem and the housing. This isn't the end of the world because, presumably, your whistles and sanders are not on all the time. If they are, consider moving to a less busy railroad with fewer leaves on the tracks :)

Later versions of these valves often included an O ring on the stem to stop leakage. It sure looks like your stem has an O-ring groove cut in it.

It leaks in the off position.

I just wanted to verify there should be an o-ring in the groove vs something else.

Thanks

htwyr1,

It seems to me that if the valve were in "textbook" condition, you shouldn't be seeing any air pressure at the stem; this would be prevented by the rotary valve making an air tight seal with it's seat in the valve body. So, perhaps you have a leak between the rotary valve and seat, but perhaps not to the extent that it tends to operate the sanders in the "off" position. Or, maybe there is enough wear between stem and body that it is allowing the stem/rotary assembly to cock and lift off the seat when the valve is operated. Or, maybe a combination of these defects.

Attached is a drawing of a King Sander Operating Valve found in an online search, and available thanks to the Northwest Railway Museum. Not sure if it meets your model exactly, but looks very close. As you can see in the drawing, the circumferential groove around the stem appears to simply be featured for periodic lubrication, though in the exact model shown in the drawing this feature may be a hole as opposed to a groove.


Hope this helps.

-Erich Armpriester
Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Services

That looks like it! At least now I know it is a king valve.

And I see the oil valve on it with the holes to distribute the oil into the groove. So they must just depend on the brass faces to make the seal. Hmm

Thanks Erich and NWRM

I've never seen or worked on a "King" sander valve. But something is not adding up with that diagram. Where is the sealing surface? The flat brass face of that piston-like valve against the casting?

It doesn't seem like that would ever seal up right. I've seen similar things but where there is a hard plastic seal attached to on surface or the other.

What's the paper gasket with the blue stuff in the first photo? What are those two holes in the
face of the valve?

The paper gasket is something I cut from gasket material. When I pulled it apart it had a paper type gasket glued to the castings. Nothing else.

The casting laying face up just to the right of the piece in my hand has a smooth brass face with similar holes at 3 and 9 o'clock between the bolt holes. The two holes in the piece in my hand move over holes in the brass casting laying off to the side and divert air to either the front or rear truck.

I have tried searching for the King Valve online and only see one reference to it in locomotive cyclopedia of practices from 1950 where King is advertising sanders. Still not seeing the museum site with it. Maybe I am not searching correctly.

Oh! It is one of those FRONT/REAR/OFF type sanding valves. I thought it was the type with a bail that you push down. Geez, no wonder I was confused.

Check carefully for any nicks, burrs or high spots on either brass piece. Try smoothing out with 220-400 grit sandpaper, just in the area of the high spot. It could be just residue left from the gasket.

There is not supposed to be a gasket between the two brass faces. It is a rotary valve, like a motorman's/engineer's valve. The gasket goes between the top casting and the base casting, and is a static seal to prevent air from leakage at the joint between the castings.

After cleaning both brass surfaces, apply some prussian blue or even sharpie marker to one surface, reassemble the valve with air pressure, and work it back and forth. You'll be able to see if the two surfaces are making good sealing contact, or if there are high/low areas causing leakage.

If the valve is really screwed up, it might require lapping.

Try this link:
https://trainmuseum.org/virtual-exhibits/vex6/toc.htm