Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase

ana and Sam...There is a small town in central Pennsylvania that has a nice little railroad just begging for folks like you with a vision and a goal to resurrect it ....Orbisonia

I am a native of Kentucky on both sides of my family and take a little bit of offense at the general comments about Kentucky. There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans.

Kentucky is no different than all the other flyover states, and Denmark for that matter. The economic growth in Kentucky is in industries that are not as easily identified as Toyota. It is in service industries like RJ Corman or Humana, or the horse breeding industry. Lexington has grown enormously over the last 25 years. Unfortunately eastern Kentucky is about where the Colorado silver towns were a hundred years ago, and there is no clear new economy on the horizon. It is not anyone's fault.

The relations between buyer and seller at Big Fork are also not specific to Kentucky. We have lots of examples of conflicts between stakeholders elsewhere in this record (c.f. Mid Continent Railway, Golden Gate Railroad Museum).

Can we learn from these events and improve?

There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans.

softwerkslex wrote:

OT, but what are the collection of locomotives in Oregon you refer to? I have only lived here four years and so am not offended, just curious, they probably just have slipped my mind.

softwerkslex wrote:

As a fifth generation Kentuckian, I will refute your contentions to an extent, sir.

To begin with, I am not speaking of the entire Commonwealth, just McCreary County. If one travels about 20 miles north of McCreary County to Pulaski County, it's like landing on a different planet. Here are cities like Burnside and especially Somerset, both growing and busy communities. Go south of McCreary about 15 miles into Tennessee and you find another busy community, Oneida. Similarly, east of McCreary County you will find the cities of Williamsburg, Corbin, and London. Granted, those last three have benefited from I-75 and tourism, but they have also weathered serious declines in or the complete disappearance of coal mining and, in Corbin's case, drastic retrenchment by CSX.

McCreary County is the hole in the doughnut; it has been such since the late 1960's. While the other cities and towns mentioned have struggled, they have also looked beyond what they lost and found new things to make their communities and economies stabilize and grow. Where these places looked ahead, McCreary County and Stearns have closed their eyes and minds, and even look backward.

McCreary County not only spurns "outsiders" and their ideas (and money), it steadfastly resists and discourages them. Nepotism and isolation seem to be the goals. To be sure, there are quite a number of residents who are upset about the repeated self-destructive antics of the Heritage Foundation, there are just as many who could care less if the place ever changes for the better.

My thought is why bother to try to help people who are quite happy continuing the steady decline of their one and only attraction.

Author:	fixologist61 [ Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
junior wrote: ana and Sam...There is a small town in central Pennsylvania that has a nice little railroad just begging for folks like you with a vision and a goal to resurrect it ....Orbisonia I second this!

Author:	tom moungovan [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
That letter that I mentioned was sent this week. No name calling or threats, but let them know that people are aware of what has gone on there and that we would not be visiting Stearns as the situation stands right now.

Author:	Frisco1522 [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
They have made a big investment around Stearns and I doubt if they would consider moving on to the EBT. What an awful way of doing business!

Author:	Dave [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
Has EBT or their operator actually solicited a new operator? Junior mentions no official standing with either.......

Author:	PMC [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
I think junior didn't intend to be taken literally, just daydreaming about which operation would benefit the most from a moneybags type. It is a fun daydream.

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Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40331	Page 3 of 4

Author:	Lincoln Penn [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
Meanwhile, back in SE KY, it appears the old guard has succeeded in preventing new ideas and investment from invading their tourist railroad. I'm getting indications the experienced team assembled to start work has disbanded in disgust and left, taking their money and skills and proven backgrounds with them. Which means a return to the status quo prior. I suspect there will be lawsuits over the money already spent by the spurned buyer. Which is kind of convenient for the current owners as enough badly-needed car and MoW work was funded by the now-out group to allow the railroad to limp through the 2017 season in some manner. This marks at least the third time the Foundation has taken careful aim and shot itself in both feet.

Author:	Frisco1522 [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
Should be lawsuits flying. Wonder if they could put a lien against the losers in Stearns? Those goobers down there deserve whatever happens to them.

Author:	softwerkslex [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
I am a native of Kentucky on both sides of my family and take a little bit of offense at the general comments about Kentucky. There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans. Kentucky is no different than all the other flyover states, and Denmark for that matter. The economic growth in Kentucky is in industries that are not as easily identified as Toyota. It is in service industries like RJ Corman or Humana, or the horse breeding industry. Lexington has grown enormously over the last 25 years. Unfortunately eastern Kentucky is about where the Colorado silver towns were a hundred years ago, and there is no clear new economy on the horizon. It is not anyone's fault. The relations between buyer and seller at Big Fork are also not specific to Kentucky. We have lots of examples of conflicts between stakeholders elsewhere in this record (c.f. Mid Continent Railway, Golden Gate Railroad Museum). Can we learn from these events and improve?

Author:	Lincoln Penn [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
softwerkslex wrote: I am a native of Kentucky on both sides of my family and take a little bit of offense at the general comments about Kentucky. There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans. Kentucky is no different than all the other flyover states, and Denmark for that matter. The economic growth in Kentucky is in industries that are not as easily identified as Toyota. It is in service industries like RJ Corman or Humana, or the horse breeding industry. Lexington has grown enormously over the last 25 years. Unfortunately eastern Kentucky is about where the Colorado silver towns were a hundred years ago, and there is no clear new economy on the horizon. It is not anyone's fault. The relations between buyer and seller at Big Fork are also not specific to Kentucky. We have lots of examples of conflicts between stakeholders elsewhere in this record (c.f. Mid Continent Railway, Golden Gate Railroad Museum). Can we learn from these events and improve? As a fifth generation Kentuckian, I will refute your contentions to an extent, sir. To begin with, I am not speaking of the entire Commonwealth, just McCreary County. If one travels about 20 miles north of McCreary County to Pulaski County, it's like landing on a different planet. Here are cities like Burnside and especially Somerset, both growing and busy communities. Go south of McCreary about 15 miles into Tennessee and you find another busy community, Oneida. Similarly, east of McCreary County you will find the cities of Williamsburg, Corbin, and London. Granted, those last three have benefited from I-75 and tourism, but they have also weathered serious declines in or the complete disappearance of coal mining and, in Corbin's case, drastic retrenchment by CSX. McCreary County is the hole in the doughnut; it has been such since the late 1960's. While the other cities and towns mentioned have struggled, they have also looked beyond what they lost and found new things to make their communities and economies stabilize and grow. Where these places looked ahead, McCreary County and Stearns have closed their eyes and minds, and even look backward. McCreary County not only spurns "outsiders" and their ideas (and money), it steadfastly resists and discourages them. Nepotism and isolation seem to be the goals. To be sure, there are quite a number of residents who are upset about the repeated self-destructive antics of the Heritage Foundation, there are just as many who could care less if the place ever changes for the better. My thought is why bother to try to help people who are quite happy continuing the steady decline of their one and only attraction.

Author:	PMC [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
softwerkslex wrote: There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans. OT, but what are the collection of locomotives in Oregon you refer to? I have only lived here four years and so am not offended, just curious, they probably just have slipped my mind.

Author:	hullmat991 [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
softwerkslex wrote: There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans. To be fair the Kovalchick family is in the scrap and salvage business; we should be thankful that EBT has survived at all. The fact that they are looking for a buyer to bring the railroad back into operation is a good sign. With the cost of insurance and overhauling the locomotives; I can understand their reasoning to stop operations. It should also be mentioned that despite the railroad not currently operating they allow the the volunteer group "Friends of the East Broad Top" http://www.febt.org/ to have access to the railroad, so they can make repairs, maintain, and even do restorations.

Author:	sc 'doc' lewis [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
PMC: Google 'Fred Kepner Locomotives'...images, videos, and years and years of discussion on the various boards.

Author:	tom moungovan [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
PMC wrote: softwerkslex wrote: There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans. OT, but what are the collection of locomotives in Oregon you refer to? I have only lived here four years and so am not offended, just curious, they probably just have slipped my mind. There are about a dozen locomotives stored on private property in Merril, OR. The property is a feed store IIRC and is right next to the UP mainline. It has not been posted when I visited there twice, you could drive right up to them. Rayonier 38 2-6-6-2 in pieces Long-Bell (CA operation) 2-6-2 Long-Bell 104 (OR operation) 2-6-2T Long-Bell 105 (OR operation) 2-6-2 another 2-6-2T from OR (Oregon, Pacific & Eastern) Sierra RR 18 2-8-0 Sierra RR 36 2-8-2 Pickering Lbr 8 3T Shay GN 2-8-0 Santa Maria Valley 100 2-8-2 small ng tank engine This is by memory, I'm away from any books and is the best that I can come up with. There is also an SP steam wrecker nearby. Also in the collection is: Sierra RR 34 2-8-2 in roundhouse, Jamestown, CA Bonhomie & Hattiesburg Southern 300 2-8-2 in Hattiesburg, MS

Author:	PMC [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
Oh yeah, the Kepner locomotives had slipped my mind, or maybe I am blocking the situation out. I haven't heard any news on them in years. We actually have a lot of hoarders in Oregon, but the hoarders mostly collect cats, not steam locomotives.

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Author:	wilkinsd [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Big South Fork Scenic Railway Purchase
Lincoln Penn wrote: softwerkslex wrote: I am a native of Kentucky on both sides of my family and take a little bit of offense at the general comments about Kentucky. There are plenty of examples of incompetent and poorly managed preservation projects in other states, ranging from a certain narrow gauge railway in Pennsylvania, to a "collection" of locomotives in Oregon, to numerous steamships that have been lost to mismanagement or unrealistic business plans. Kentucky is no different than all the other flyover states, and Denmark for that matter. The economic growth in Kentucky is in industries that are not as easily identified as Toyota. It is in service industries like RJ Corman or Humana, or the horse breeding industry. Lexington has grown enormously over the last 25 years. Unfortunately eastern Kentucky is about where the Colorado silver towns were a hundred years ago, and there is no clear new economy on the horizon. It is not anyone's fault. The relations between buyer and seller at Big Fork are also not specific to Kentucky. We have lots of examples of conflicts between stakeholders elsewhere in this record (c.f. Mid Continent Railway, Golden Gate Railroad Museum). Can we learn from these events and improve? As a fifth generation Kentuckian, I will refute your contentions to an extent, sir. To begin with, I am not speaking of the entire Commonwealth, just McCreary County. If one travels about 20 miles north of McCreary County to Pulaski County, it's like landing on a different planet. Here are cities like Burnside and especially Somerset, both growing and busy communities. Go south of McCreary about 15 miles into Tennessee and you find another busy community, Oneida. Similarly, east of McCreary County you will find the cities of Williamsburg, Corbin, and London. Granted, those last three have benefited from I-75 and tourism, but they have also weathered serious declines in or the complete disappearance of coal mining and, in Corbin's case, drastic retrenchment by CSX. McCreary County is the hole in the doughnut; it has been such since the late 1960's. While the other cities and towns mentioned have struggled, they have also looked beyond what they lost and found new things to make their communities and economies stabilize and grow. Where these places looked ahead, McCreary County and Stearns have closed their eyes and minds, and even look backward. McCreary County not only spurns "outsiders" and their ideas (and money), it steadfastly resists and discourages them. Nepotism and isolation seem to be the goals. To be sure, there are quite a number of residents who are upset about the repeated self-destructive antics of the Heritage Foundation, there are just as many who could care less if the place ever changes for the better. My thought is why bother to try to help people who are quite happy continuing the steady decline of their one and only attraction. Since we are playing this game, as an eighth generation Kentuckian, I think both are correct to an extent. My experience from growing up in the Commonwealth is that the quality of your community varies, from county to county, and even from town to town in a county. It usually depends on the people who you elect and who the community leaders are. To say the whole state is dammed, as one disgruntled citizen stated, is incorrect, and so is the same to paint a rosy picture on the state. Like most of America, if varies widely. I grew up in Bardstown, which was an is a nice, growing small town. It was a great place to grow up. The local economy there has really diversified form when I was growing up there in the 1980s and 1990s, more manufacturing has moved into town, and other industries have grown. Other communities in the same county, not so much. Your experience varies. Now, living in a state that generates a significant amount of income from people who enjoy nature and being outside, it's a shame McCreary County has chosen to squander their natural resources. The area has a lot of potential, but the failure to exploit it is purely local.