To complete the restoration of Erie boxcar #75486 in Elmira, NY we are in need of the bottom corner piece (not sure the technical title) or two seen in the picture. Not sure if one or more of these pieces are easily available, anyone has fabricated these or has an old forty foot boxcar that is going to scrap that could provide such a piece. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

To hopefully help in your search, you're looking for a poling (sp?) pocket. When an engine or train on as adjacent track needed to move a car a wooden pole with iron or steel ball ends was placed in that pocket and the mating pocket on the car providing the push. That saved the time needed to switch over to that track and then couple into the car needing to be moved......mld

Bondo and fiberglass are probably going to be your best bet.

Agreed. While these corner castings incorporating the poling pocket were almost ubiquitous on freight cars from the mid thirties until the mid fifties, by the sixties poling was a thing of the past, and they stopped being applied to new cars. So, while fifteen years ago these would have been easy pickin's in any scrap yard cutting railroad cars, I doubt there is anything being cut today that still has them.

Anyway, they were not all the same, they varied in the shape of the mounting flange and hole spacing. Considering you are not likely to ever put a push pole against the one on your display car, it may be best to just clean and prime it good and build up the missing portion with body putty.

If it's rusted out that badly I wouldn't bet that there's much solid material left in that pocket. My suggestion would be to cut out the bad material and weld in a patch. This would give you a much more durable result than fiberglass.

You could also heat, rework, and check the fit of the patch as many times as you needed before welding to get the proper shape. Once welded, grind the weld beads down flush, and after a coat of paint you won't be able to tell it was ever patched.

I'm not sure if the dimensions would work out, but a poling pocket resembles the dome-shaped end of a steel weld-on high pressure pipe cap. (for example, see McMaster-Carr # 4981T64)

Maybe you could cut out the old material, and use the end of such a cap as a pre-formed pocket. It might save quite a bit of metal forming work.

If it is cast iron welding would be a tall order. Unless they plan on using it (a big no-no from the FRA) then fiber glass would work fine.

Check out how Howard Wise repaired a hole in the elbow below the turbocharger on SP 9010 that was discovered prior to the recent first start: http://sp9010.ncry.org/mechanical4.html#020317 (scroll down about an inch). I think this process is much what would be followed in welding in a pipe cap.

Were you to weld in a pipe cap (cheap and easy to find) as Al suggested and then some grinding you could do a repair much like a car shop would do that won't crack as fiberglass will if bumped just a little.

your recreating the pocket for the pole. You will never use it. The poles on NKP 765 are in place and welded on. (unless they removed them).

You could form some compatible sheet metal and weld to cover it forming the shape for the pocket.

your recreating the pocket for the pole. You will never use it. The poles on NKP 765 are in place and welded on. (unless they removed them).

You could form some compatible sheet metal and weld to cover it forming the shape for the pocket.

That is most definitely a stamped steel poling pocket. See the orange iron oxide (aka rust) around the missing metal.

Cast Iron does not produce orange iron oxide, just gray and black iron oxide.

Options include;

1) Fiberglass: cosmetic only - which might do depending on intended use (display only). But surface preparation and thermal expansion/contraction is critical, you can probably get a fiberglass repair to stick for a while. But if the piece is outside (subject to Winter/Summer cycles) you can expect the fiberglass to "pull away" from the steel after some number of years, maybe 1 or 2, maybe 20, hard to predict. The welding repairs do not have this problem.

2) Weld (TIG/MIG/Stick/Oxy-Acteylene) in a steel "pipe cap" to replace the majority of the missing steel, use body filler to blend the repair to the original metal. This is part structural / part cosmetic, it will look OK until someone pushes on it too hard and the body filler falls off, or the body filler falls off due to thermal expansion/contraction.

3) Weld a patch in and smooth the welds and metal to match the original shape, strongest solution, also most labor intensive.

4) Braze (lower temperature welding) in a steel "filler" (maybe a pipe cap) to patch the repair. Grind/sand the repair metal (steel pipe cap and brazing filler) until the reproduced surface is smooth and structurally sound. Almost as strong as the original part but less labor involved. With brazing the temps are lower and there should be less distortion.

5) Find a replacement part that has not had a chance since it was manufactured in the 1930's-1950's to rust as badly as the one you have. Unlikely, but not totally impossible.

If it was my project I would grind away all the "rot", shape a close replica out of steel (maybe a cut-down "pipe cap") and braze it into place. Grind/sand the braze until I got a good replica surface. Then acid etch the part (braze metal needs etching for paint to stick well) and paint. Probably last 10 plus years.

Good Luck, Kevin.

lots of good ideas, I didnt know they would do an el cheapo version of a pole pocket, one good hard bump it would rip out anyways. Probably examine the other pockets for cleanup/wear. Usual pole pockets are cast in and would never do this.

relooking at the one pick it makes sense why its worn where it is, looks like theres a frame support just underneath, the "covering" merely covers it perhaps give some pushing ability but looks like the metal gets "stressed" during poling, thru time and acidic rain, this rusted out faster. Use any idea shown here, smooth cutting the rusted ares to clean metal then forming a patch can do you, tack welding first then full welding/smooth grinding it out.

I don't know how often poling was done but in some places it may have been a regularity.
I think the technique of "kicking" cars replaced this, engine leads the car before a switch, uncouples before, speeds ahead, brakeman flips switch at the right moment and the car rolls into the siding, smack coupling into the bumper or car in the siding. This all at a slow speed of course.
I think I filmed this in Fort Wayne years ago in the west wayne yards on the NKP. (N&W)

If these things aren't cast (older versions were) then they were die forged, because the material is about 3/8" thick. They are by no means sheet metal.

And if you look at drawings in the Car Builder's Cyclopedias from the sixties, those corner gussets lose the pole socket about that time. Then, boxcar construction went with the so called "non-terminating" ends, where straight pressings are welded between the side sheets, and the corner gussets go away entirely. Unless he can find some place that is cutting 40's - 50's era boxcars that have survived in work service, he's just not going to find them.

The move you are describing is a "Flying Switch", which allows cars behind an engine to be put on an adjacent track when the switch in question is a facing point. The engine is pulling cars and releases them in motion, and the switch is thrown after the engine passed, but before the cars pass.

A Kick is shove move. The engine shoves a car (cars), whoever is working the ground pulls the pin (lifts the cut lever), and the engine stops, allowing the cars to roll on their own. It's a very effcient way of switching out cuts of cars in the yard.

Hi,

Poling was done frequently on the PRR for a while. They designed and built special "poling cars" for the purpose.

Here is a link to an HO scale model with 10 photos showing the "poles" are not installed. One would have been installed in the middle of each side of the car so it could operate in both directions and on tracks on either side.

https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/063205/padding;%2010px

I am not sure when poling fell into disfavor but I think it would be the unions and or government safety issues along with heavier steel cars.

FWIW

Doug vV